Author Topic: The language of old Europe  (Read 309533 times)

Offline Daniel

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2014, 10:32:42 AM »
Do you genuinely believe yourself and believe that we will be convinced by random statements like "N means boundary"?
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Offline dublin

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2014, 11:04:47 AM »
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Do you genuinely believe yourself and believe that we will be convinced by random statements like "N means boundary"?

These are not random statements. Maybe they seem random to you, but that is your problem not mine. This statement is in complete agreement with everything else i said about the original language development. If you don't agree with me, can you explain creation of word no, ne, ni please? Why do we say no and not "ma" or "ut", or something else? You can see that in other non "Indoeuropean" languages, non R1a languages, word for no is different. I have no idea what Greeks used to develop "OHI" as no and "NE" as yes, in complete opposite to all the other "Indoeuropeans"? Maybe the language developed later as deliberate exclusion slang.
But why are all "Indoeuropeans" using "N" to express refusal to allow, to give, to accept? Because all their languages come from the original root natural language developed in paleolithic times. Natural sound of refusal is "NNNN". Look at babies, and small kids, which are trying to protect something you are trying to take away from them. They will pull at it and produce sound "NNN" which is the sound of exertion when you pull something your way or pushing it away. Look at people threatened with physical violence. They will try to protect themselves and squirm producing sound "NNNN". These are involuntary sounds. And everyone makes them and knows how to understand them especially when they are combined with action. Eventually you wont need action any more. "NNN" will be enough.
What is the root of this word in all these languages? What does no mean? When do we use it? When do you thing people needed to use it originally, in what situations? Please give me better explanation from the one i gave you?
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Offline freknu

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2014, 11:20:49 AM »
Please give me better explanation from the one i gave you?

That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on you. It is your obligation to show why your hypotheses should be considered valid. So far you have presented no evidence and only a chain of assumptions.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Offline ibarrere

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2014, 11:28:22 AM »
http://americanwerewolfinbelgrade.com/

ymmärtämättömyyttään

Offline dublin

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2014, 11:35:46 AM »
I have already given you proof, but you refuse to accept it as such. All the "N" words (no, ne, ni...) used to specify protection of boundary. Here is another proof that "N" sound means boundary:

An object can be only in two positions relative to a surface of the earth:

On - on top of a hill, mountain, tree...
In - at the bottom of a valley, hole

In Serbian these two words are:

Na - on something
Un - in something

N in all these cases represents the extreme boundary of the hill or a hole. In Serbian:

NA = N + A = boundary + up = upper boundary, top
UN + U + N = in + boundary = lower boundary, bottom

freknu, what exactly do you consider to be a proof for something like this anyway? I am curious..



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Offline freknu

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2014, 11:38:14 AM »
What you have proven is that "na" means "on" and "un" means "in".

Offline dublin

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2014, 12:06:06 PM »
Can you find better explanation why these words have "N" in them? Why "no" has "N" in it? Please i would love to hear it? Just point me to the explanation that you support if it exists? But i doubt it does...

ibarrere, can you translate your comment to me please. I don't speak "Thug" language, that you freknu and djr seem to understand so well. The language of people who when they have no arguments to support their opinion sink into ridicule and mocking. Very adult, and scientific. But I thank you for posting your "funny black person" joke, because after your "joke" and freknu's and djr's thanks, everyone can see you for who you are.

I am yet to hear one of you give me counter argument for why N is all the above words? Any ideas or are you all out?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 12:07:51 PM by dublin »
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Offline freknu

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2014, 12:14:00 PM »
Can you find better explanation why these words have "N" in them? Why "no" has "N" in it? Please i would love to hear it? Just point me to the explanation that you support if it exists? But i doubt it does...

ibarrere, can you translate your comment to me please. I don't speak "Thug" language, that you freknu and djr seem to understand so well. The language of people who when they have no arguments to support their opinion sink into ridicule and mocking. Very adult, and scientific. But I thank you for posting your "funny black person" joke, because after your "joke" and freknu's and djr's thanks, everyone can see you for who you are.

I am yet to hear one of you give me counter argument for why N is all the above words? Any ideas or are you all out?

We are under no obligation to give you any counterargument. It is your obligation, your responsibility, your burden of proof, to show why we should believe you, why your hypotheses should be accepted as valid.

Why does it matter if "no" has an alveolar nasal in it? You are making the extraordinary claims, you need need to provide the extraordinary evidence.

What you have shown is not statistically significant. It is indistinguishable from statistical noise.

Offline Daniel

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2014, 01:09:07 PM »
They just have N. Like Zimbabwe starts with Z.
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Offline dublin

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2014, 01:14:18 PM »
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We are under no obligation to give you any counterargument.

No but it would look better for you if you actually had an argument, instead of just shouting "no,no,no" and looking like spoiled children.

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You are making the extraordinary claims, you need need to provide the extraordinary evidence.

You are avoiding to explain what you would consider a satisfactory evidence. This way you can keep shouting "no,no,no" for ever and never have to accept that i have proved my theory. Unless you explain to me what you consider as evidence i will be forced to ignore everything you say from now on as noise made by someone who actually does,t have any argument to support his own claim. Or do you have no way of explaining where your stand on this is because you have no stand at all, and this is why you can not give me the definition of satisfactory evidence.

Quote
They just have N. Like Zimbabwe starts with Z.

As i thougth, you have no idea why...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 01:16:03 PM by dublin »
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Offline swills

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2014, 01:33:44 PM »
Quote from: freknu
That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on you. It is your obligation to show why your hypotheses should be considered valid. So far you have presented no evidence and only a chain of assumptions.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Psychiatrist Richard Kluft noted that pseudoskepticism can inhibit research progress:

".. today genuine skepticism of the benign sort that looks evenly in all directions and encourages the advancement of knowledge seems vanishingly rare. Instead, we find a prevalence of pseudo-skepticism consisting of harsh and invidious skepticism toward one's opponents' points of view and observations, and egregious self-congratulatory confirmatory bias toward one's own stances and findings misrepresented as the earnest and dispassionate pursuit of clinical, scholarly, and scientific truth."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism#Subsequent_usage
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 01:38:10 PM by swills »

Offline Daniel

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2014, 01:36:53 PM »
The latest arguments posted could apply to anything.

"Pigs fly!"
--insert rest of defense about why we should be open minded here.
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Offline dublin

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2014, 04:02:15 AM »
djr33

You said "insert rest of defense about why we should be open minded here."

No one is asking you to open your mind. Just use it for thinking.

By the way, I have finally gotten around to read some of your old post from couple of days ago, and "o my god"! I have never seen anything so arrogant:


I said:

Quote
I speak the local (Serbian) dialects I talk about.

And then you said:

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Oh no! You're necessarily biased then. (If I told you that American English was really cool because X, you'd be right to wonder about my biases too!).

Whatever else goes on with this research, I urge you strongly to consider:
1. How this might be affecting you.
2. Whether someone else who knows what you know but isn't directly part of it would come to the same conclusions you have.
If nothing else, you're putting much more emphasis on the implications of this evidence than anything else. Your entire theory of, well, everything, is starting from the two dialects you just happen to speak. That's a big warning sign. It doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means that you're likely to have a biased perspective.

Depends what your argument was for claiming that American English is cool. And I do believe that it is cool, particularly for linguists, because it is a "real time" language laboratory showing you how languages mix and evolve.
But I wouldn't accuse you of bias. That is your way of looking at things, not mine.

Do you think that anyone told sir William Jones that he was biased when he proposed that there is a relationship between English and Hindi and when he coined term Indo Euoropean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jones_(philologist)

The only reason he was able to spot the similarities between European languages and languages of the Indian subcontinent was because he was fluent in English, Welsh and he learned several Indian languages when he worked there as a lawyer. He used  languages he new and understood best to draw his conclusions. So do I.

I speak local south Serbian dialects, but I also speak (to a various degrees) all the other south Slavic languages. I can speak Russian and English. I understand Irish, some Greek, Spanish, Latin. All of this helps me to see similarities between languages, in the same way it helped sir William Jones.

So do you think sir William Jones was biased? And if you don't, why do you think I am biast?

And by the way, what do you use to come to your conclusions? Your own knowledge of languages, your own experience in comparing them and your own investigation or do you rely on what other people tell you?

Etymology for English word no:

Quote
From Middle English no, na, from Old English nā, nō (“never”), from Proto-Germanic *nai (“never”), *nē (“not”), from Proto-Indo-European *ne, *nē, *nēy (negative particle), equivalent to Old English ne (“not”) + ā, ō (“ever, always”). Cognate with West Frisian né (“no”), West Frisian nea (“never”), Dutch nee (“no”), Low German nee (“no”), German nie (“never”), Icelandic nei (“no”). More at nay.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no#Etymology_2

eeee -- what is that thing? I want that thing
neee -- protecting that thing razing hands and creating boundary and saying sound for boundary combined with the sound for object which exists and lies or sits there before us.

Let me show you another picture, which might help you understand the meaning of the term boundary:



U and V are two sounds which mean "IN" in various Serbian dialects.

The red line tracing the shape of the future Vinca script letters, defines the boundary specified with the sound "N".
 
I will continue with my elaboration on the meaning of N sound as boundary sound in my next post.

jkpate

I am writing my summary text and will post it at the end of the week.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:18:56 AM by dublin »
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Offline Daniel

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2014, 09:13:35 AM »
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So do you think sir William Jones was biased? And if you don't, why do you think I am biast?
Alright, fair enough. But... yes, he was biased. And in fact, he was wrong about many of the details. It just happened that he got the main ideas right and others improved his arguments later. So one important point there is that you must have convincing arguments so that others can extend/continue the work.

As for his bias, one aspect is that at the time no one was aware that kind of analysis/comparison was possible. So due to his bias, the world is now especially aware of Proto-Indo-European and relatively unaware of many other proto-languages out there. That's not a crucial thing, of course. But it means that his bias wasn't so much of a problem because he happened to discover a very general pattern within his specific set of languages. In your case, you seem to be suggesting that the two languages you are closely familiar with just happen to reflect the old state of Europe and also give us insight into the original meaning of sounds in human language.

Plus, regardless, even if bias isn't a problem, none of this means you're right.

Quote
Let me show you another picture, which might help you understand the meaning of the term boundary:
Haha. Entertaining. Not convincing.
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Offline freknu

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Re: The language of old Europe
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2014, 09:46:59 AM »
Let me show you another picture, which might help you understand the meaning of the term boundary ...

Did you know that:

  • Ser-Cr. u "in" < PIE. *h2eu-
  • Ser-Cr. na "on" < PIE. *h2no-