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41
Morphosyntax / Re: C-commanding and binding theory
« Last post by snoacesupport on February 21, 2022, 08:01:32 PM »
Thank you for your response, it was really helpful in helping me understand the topic better.

I do have a few follow-up questions if that's okay.
- Is it possible for the subject in the binding domain of the anaphor to be the anaphor?
eg. *John said that himself baked Mary a cake.
 from my understanding, when considering Principle A, the binding domain here would be 'John said that himself..' as himself cannot c-command itself, therefore the binding domain must be the root TP containing the DP 'John'. When considering sentences with anaphors, is the binding domain always just the one that you would use for Principle A, or can the binding domain here be 'himself baked Mary a cake', as it is the smallest XP containing a subject (if 'himself' can be considered the subject)?

Sorry if that's a bit difficult to read, I think what I'm trying to ask is - can the binding domain be different if you are not considering a Principle, or do the binding domains of sentences with anaphors always have to be the one you'd use for Principle A, and pronouns Principle B, etc.?

 
42
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Voynich Manuscript: Comparing Notes
« Last post by milton63 on February 20, 2022, 06:37:44 PM »
Thank you for the info. Since my educational background is very remote from linguistics, sometimes it is hard to get used to the linguistic terminology, but I think the article is written so well to understand.
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Linguist's Lounge / Re: Voynich Manuscript: Comparing Notes
« Last post by Daniel on February 20, 2022, 04:49:24 PM »
Welcome to the forum. I don't know how much discussion on this topic will happen here, just because it's a niche interest. But you're welcome to ask!

I did happen upon this recent article that might be of interest, which seems to be a good summary of the situation from a linguistic perspective:
https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-linguistics-011619-030613

(One other user here discussed this topic a while ago, but was either unwilling or unable to provide any translations, despite having claimed to have solved it in what seemed to be a relatively trivial way, so it was pretty clear that it was just guessing rather than systematic translation, and the linguistic terminology was off, e.g. "Proto-Romance" used in a way that didn't mean anything standard. [The linked article above briefly mentions that point but nothing else about that research.] Many linguists were, I think, surprised to see that "Proto-Romance" research actually published and wondered if there was any peer review at all, if for nothing else than the completely non-standard, bordering on meaningless, terminology. In the few years since it doesn't seem to have caught on or really made an impact, beyond a few casual news articles saying "it's been solved" and not diving deeper.)
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Outside of the box / Re: "Russian" orphografy
« Last post by Rock100 on February 19, 2022, 04:46:35 PM »
> революционен is not a Russian word. It is a word from another language.
I do not think it is a valid argument. It is a loan word but it is so long in the language that it is in the dictionaries and I do not think there is a Russian who has ever thought about it as a foreign word. Moreover, -tion based adjectives are so far the only non-taboo words that produce –anen adjectives I know (with your help). I do not say your point is not valid at all but if you want to consider or leave out loans, dialects, non-existing Russian words that do exist you need to formulate these preconditions in advance.
> There are many Russian words with -anna but without -anen. This is not logical.
I wished you would provide a single (morphologically correct in terms we have discussed above) example – I am totally lost and cannot think out one. OK, let it be any example even if a part of –anen is a part of the root of a word (it will not be that interesting but at least I will learn one).
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Morphosyntax / Re: C-commanding and binding theory
« Last post by Daniel on February 18, 2022, 04:27:39 PM »
Quote
1. Is the top node of the tree (terminal?) able to c-command anything? I have been using the 'up and over' method for c-commanding, but obviously, with the top node there is no way to go 'up'. Does this mean it does not command anything, or does it command everything?
Yes, up-and-over is a good way to think about it.

Your question about the top (=root*) node applies to any phrase/constituent and its components. It's not clear to me whether in principle c-command should apply in those cases (probably not by definition), but it's effectively irrelevant: having something c-command part of itself doesn't seem like a very useful idea, so it just doesn't really come up, aside from completely abstract questions regarding labeling like "does node A c-command node B?". Think of c-command as applied to binding theory: how would a whole phrase bind part of itself? We can try to work around some awkward phrasing that might be like that as in "The students sitting by themselves", but that gets into very complicated other issues (regarding silent pronouns, non-finite clauses, etc.) and generally involves crossing a binding domain anyway, so something else would be going on. Remember that when we're talking about one node c-commanding another, we're really talking about the whole phrase/constituent contained within that node, not just the top node itself. So your question would be the same as asking "can a whole sentence c-command part of the sentence?" which just doesn't seem to really apply in a relevant way. (But it's great to ask such questions to explore how c-command works!)

[*root = first/top node in a tree, that dominants all others; a "terminal" node is one of the bottom nodes, i.e. a word/morpheme, rather than intermediate level in the structure]

A more interesting question to explore might be looking at "backwards" c-command/binding, which is just normal c-command but could apply to an anaphor that occurs before its "antecedent". That's somewhat limited in English (due to word order), but you can try to find some examples yourself. There's nothing restricting the direction of c-command (which is why it is preferable to more intuitive ideas of precedence, which don't work out as well when we look at the full range of data).

Quote
2. What is meant by the 'category' of a binding domain? Is this TP, VP, DP, etc. If so, the way I have been taught the binding domain for Principle A is that it is the closest TP that contains the VP that is being bound, does this not make all binding domain categories a TP?
Defining "binding domain" is actually very difficult. A rough approximation has to do with clauses, and that works most of the time for typical uses. But there are some other cases that must be treated a little differently, and it doesn't seem to be strictly TPs. The textbook I use approximates this in a different way: it's any XP (i.e. any phrase) that has a subject, which is most often a TP with a subject, but in principle might be any other phrase with a subject or specifier position. If you're familiar with so-called small clauses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_clause), you may already know that other phrases can have "subjects", as in for example a VP small clause with a subject: I heard you sing, where "you" is the subject of the VP sing (in a position just like a TP subject, but within that VP).

Another case where this works out nicely for demonstration purposes is with possessive DPs, assuming that the possessor is actually a "subject"/specifier within the DP, and the head of the DP (=D) is the 's marker of possession. This analysis isn't immediately intuitive, but works well (although it might not be included in your textbook). Here's an example:

[tree][DP [DP [D the][NP [N student]]] [D' [D 's] [NP [N book]]]][/tree]

Now, think about binding: note that the DP "the student" c-commands the NP "book". So far, there's no boundary for a binding domain, because there's no subject position between them. But if we expand that a bit, we get an interesting sentence:

John saw Mary's picture of herself.
*John saw Mary's picture of himself.

The reason the first sentence is grammatical is because Mary c-commands the whole NP "picture of herself", including the embedded DP "herself". (Try to draw a tree to see how that works, but it's similar to the example above.)

The second sentence is ungrammatical because even though John c-commands himself, they are not in the same binding domain: the possessive DP with Mary as subject intervenes, meaning that a new binding domain is established.

So one way to think about binding domains is that they are formed by any XP that has a subject. This is still a rough approximation in some ways, and we could explore even more data to refine the idea. But it's clear that it's not only TPs that can potentially form binding domains. There's more you could read in published articles, maybe more advanced textbooks, etc., but that is probably beyond what you're expected to know for an introductory class. (Again, asking questions like this is great, because you learn more as you do so, and you better understand the basics by looking at the advanced cases. Actually that's how science progresses in general: establish a theoretical explanation for the basic cases, then refine it by looking at more and more data.)

There are also some other more advanced topics about binding and binding domains, such as so-called "long-distance anaphors" in some languages (where a word meaning something like "himself" or "herself" can be used across a clause boundary), as found in some other languages (not English). That's been an interesting area of research challenging and/or expanding Binding Theory in general.
46
Morphosyntax / C-commanding and binding theory
« Last post by snoacesupport on February 18, 2022, 09:41:08 AM »
Hi there,

I have recently started learning about binding theory and have a couple of questions if anyone can give me a bit of advice

1. Is the top node of the tree (terminal?) able to c-command anything? I have been using the 'up and over' method for c-commanding, but obviously, with the top node there is no way to go 'up'. Does this mean it does not command anything, or does it command everything?

2. What is meant by the 'category' of a binding domain? Is this TP, VP, DP, etc. If so, the way I have been taught the binding domain for Principle A is that it is the closest TP that contains the VP that is being bound, does this not make all binding domain categories a TP?

TIA :)
47
Linguist's Lounge / Voynich Manuscript: Comparing Notes
« Last post by milton63 on February 14, 2022, 10:23:07 AM »
I am not sure if this thread violates the guideline of this forum or not, but I am starting this thread as an amateur enthusiast who has been interested in the research on the Voynich Manuscript.

Luckily, I was able to publish an article on Voynich Manuscript several year ago.
https://journal.equinoxpub.com/JRDS/article/view/9474
(I have to say that it is not free to download.)

I know that there are many enthusiasts like me out there trying to solve the secret of manuscript and reveal the messages hidden behind its writing.
In my article, I explained methods that I used to translate the first paragraph of Folio 2r.
The majority of VMS researchers are oriented to identify the matching language to the manuscript, as I understand.
On the contrary, the methods I used do not assume or need to know what language the manuscript was written in.

My intention of starting this thread is not to advocate or solicit anything, but hoping to introduce some new dynamics to this subject by asking people to consider it as a reference that they can use to compare their notes with.

Even though, to be honest, I can not claim that my methods are a solution, but comparing notes is simple.
As I used my methods to translate the first paragraph of Folio 2r, I would like to invite anyone to present his/her translation results of the first paragraph of Folio 2r and explain how they got there.
I am eager to know what ideas and methods others might come up with and what all of us could achieve out of collected wisdoms.

As a reference for others, the following is the translation result of the 1st paragraph of Folio 2r presented in the article. Differential abstraction method does not assume what language the Voynich Manuscript was written in and it can produce results with no need to know the language.

"The flower head is connected to the root through the middle stem and two branches and the plant grew three flower heads. The middle stem changes into a flower head. The flower grows at the end of the seed bump. The third leaf on the left branch splits into stems. The leaf breaks and transforms into a flower at the extremity of the plant, the seed breaks from the flower and falls down onto the ground by the plant. A leaf is divided into three stems. Each stem is divided into parts. A flower emerges on the top of a stem. That is how a flower grows. The flower head and its petal emerge at the end of the three stems. After the growth of a leaf has ended, then it comes to the end with the growth of flower. The emergence or transition ends after the leaf has turned into three branches. The second part or flower head of a stem comes next after the growth of the petal part ended. The flower head emerges or breaks from the rest on the top of its petal. The growing continues after the growth of the petal ended. The growth of flower starts from the top of its petal on the stem branched from a leaf. After the extension of stem branched from a leaf ended, the flower head and its petal at the end of stem from the extension of a branch starts branching three ways."
48
Linguist's Lounge / Rongorongo tablets
« Last post by milton63 on February 12, 2022, 06:12:48 PM »
Is there anyone who is interested in the research of Rongorongo system?

I have an article published several years ago about Rongorongo tablets and their hieroglyphic system.
https://www.kci.go.kr/kciportal/landing/article.kci?arti_id=ART002272864
It is free to download.

I used the methods explained in the article to translate the whole transcript of Aruku Kurenga tablet.
The result is partially included in the article, not the whole though.

The name of tablet Aruku Kurenga means "a song about the deity which was able to fly rapidly in the sky." Specifically, it is about the diety called Manu. The translation tells that a small group of people came to visit the island with Manu. Those people were related with Ariki, the master of the island. The purpose of visits was to supply the islanders with some kind of fertilizers with which they can use for farming. Visitors showed up in the sky of the west promontary of the island with Manu on 11th moon phase and they stayed for 5 days and nights, left the island on the sixth night, and went back to their homeland in the west. The AK tablet is a collection of daily activities that happened from the night when visitors arrived the Easter island in the sky to the night when they left the island. The description on Manu in the tablet's transcription is very similar to the shape of Shakuna Vimana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana#/media/File:Vaimanika_Shastra_Shakuna_illustration.jpg). The shape of the sacred mask called Fang Shang Shi illustrated in the Figure 26 in my article might also indicate Manu, the Shakuna Vimana, judging by its design.

The so-called Lunar Calendar crust inscribed on the Mamari tablet actually is not the calendar of lunar phases, but a shortest representation of the activities written on the Aruku Kurenga tablet.

Translating the Rongorongo tablet really is a time consuming process due to its massive length, but it is doable in time with helping hands. Besides the Aruku Kurenga tablet, there are three more tablets, Mamari, Keiti, and Tahua tablets, that have transcripts. Until those tablets were fully translated, the story written on them won't be known. Nonetheless it could be guessed to a certain extent by translating the name of each tablet. For example, when Keiti is regarded as Ke Tamaiti, it means "a small group of people traveling in formation who had a different appearance." In other words, Keiti tablet might be telling about those visitors in more details.

If someone is willing to do it, I would like to share my compiled research materials and help translate those remaining three tablets.
I believe that we could learn a lot from those tablets once we have acquired full translation results.
49
Outside of the box / Re: Medieval manuscript reveals proto-Romance language.
« Last post by milton63 on February 12, 2022, 05:10:13 PM »
I just registered to this forum today.
I am not sure if this thread still is active, but I have a question or favor (if I may call it) to ask for Dr. Cheshire.
Can your method be applied to any part of the manuscript for a translation?
I am interested in the translation of the first paragraph of Folio 2r and like to know what your method will come up with.
50
Morphosyntax / Re: How far can you smurf language?
« Last post by panini on February 01, 2022, 04:26:45 PM »
You've crossed the line, but just smurfly. At least on one interpretation of the question. Under that interpretation, context is king and it's okay to play a guessing game. That context is not the context where you publish scientific discoveries or write contracts. Smurf, smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf. I should just leave it at that, but I'm afraid that I won't remember what that was supposed to mean.
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