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I'm not sure about the specific study you mentioned, but I wonder if this might be relevant in general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matched-guise_test
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Outside of the box / Re: Croatian toponyms
« Last post by Daniel on March 16, 2022, 04:58:32 AM »
It's absolutely crucial for productive research!
1. You can talk to other researchers, and you will understand each other.
2. It makes your work replicable and verifiable.
3. The methods have worked over and over again (unlike what you claimed), so they are a reliable way to consider a new question, new data, etc.
4. New/different isn't necessarily better.
5. Methodological innovations are occurring all the time, but in small steps, not just throwing out established practices because you feel like it. If it works, don't break it. If it doesn't work, adjust a bit until it does.

Ultimately, we circle back to the same original problem: you're trying to find a way to prove your answer correct, rather than conducting an unbiased, principled scientific search for the correct answer. If established methodologies do not get you to the answer your expect, that may be a feature, not a bug: maybe you're expecting the wrong answer.

(I should say, I think say again, that I'm not confident your answer is incorrect. I just don't know that it is correct, or that there is a reliable methodology to support it. You're reaching for something difficult, and it may just be out of reach.)

Good luck with your upcoming conference talk! That's great, and I hope you get useful feedback. The good news is that what we think here doesn't matter much anymore. See how the conference goes. But remember that to communicate with other researchers, you need to speak the same language (by which I mean methodology that is at least comprehensible, and hopefully comparable).
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Outside of the box / Re: Croatian toponyms
« Last post by FlatAssembler on March 16, 2022, 01:38:48 AM »
I'm not familiar enough with that approach to comment. This is one of the reasons why I've recommended working in an established, well-known methodology.
I must admit I do not understand what is the point of trying to achieve something using an "established" methodology. The fact is, if some methodology has been tried again and again, every time resulting in a failure, isn't that a sign that you should try something at least slightly different, rather than that you should once again try the same thing and hoping to get a better result?
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Our accents do adjust based on what we're exposed to. It's a natural part of speaking a language, and this happens every day to subtle degrees based on the specific people we talk to in a temporary way, and over longer periods of time can be more obvious or even lead to relatively permanent shifts.

There's a great book about learning a second dialect, which basically summarizes the research as showing that it's like learning a second language: more likely for children, less likely for adults, and overall a gradual process following similar steps.
Siegel, Jeff. 2010. Second dialect acquisition. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9780511777820

However, that's more about interaction and communicating in a second dialect or different accent, not just hearing it in movies, TV, etc. Our "ears" adjust more rapidly, and more flexibly, than our "mouths", so to speak. And although there are feedback loops, it would take a lot to really shift to another accent just from hearing it a lot, assuming you are more often hearing your local/original accent.

The other crucial factor is sociolinguistic, and specifically prestige: does the speaker perceive the accent they are hearing via media as "better" than their own, or desirable in general? Is their own accent stigmatized? Do they want to be like the people they see on TV? (I imagine, for example, actors might be more likely to shift how they speak, even intentionally, based on what they see on TV, if they want to also be on TV themselves, just as an example.)

So overall it's somewhat complicated, but I would caution against phrasing like "too much media content" or in general thinking of this as something like a disease you can "catch". It's really not like that, but more about social interaction, attitudes, and, yes, exposure, but also practice, and what else is going on in someone's life beyond what they're watching on TV, etc.

Another interesting topic to look up is categorical perception, which is what allows us to hear individual sounds (technically phonemes, but roughly something like letters in spelling) from the widely varied input from different speakers around us: those categories are crucial for dividing the vibrations in the speech signal into meaningful content, but they're also socially flexible so we can hear different physical sounds as the same category across different speakers. That's how we understand different accents, basically mapping from input sounds to perceptual categories. And with some practice listening to individuals (for example, speakers of Australian English) we get better at it.

Eventually, yes, we might start to be able to produce it, although it takes a lot of exposure, and also generally a lack of continued exposure to our original accent. Sometimes speakers can end up "between" accents, if they move somewhere else and start gradually shifting toward the new accent, so they don't sound exactly like their original accent or the accent of their new location, and if they move back and forth, it can fluctuate between the two.

Here's an article with some technical research on the topic. The ideas are clear enough, although the terminology is technical regarding exactly what is being measured. https://doi.org/10.1006/jpho.1997.0051

(I don't know if anyone has tried to measure something like that correlated to how much foreign TV someone watches, or anything like that. I imagine there might be very small effects that would be very difficult to measure, and probably not perceptually relevant for others around them.)
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Some linguists say it is possible, others say it isn’t unless you make the concious decision to change it, i’m quite on the fence about it, what do you guys think about it? To help the discussion i will give three exemples of english dudes (and one irish girl) that, according to themselves, in the linked videos, they say they speak with a americanized accents due to watching too many american movies and TV (i love british accents and the thought of them dissappearing scares me haha). A similar thing is said to be happening in Portugal (i’m a lusophone from Brazil), portuguese kids are starting to talk like brazillians due to YouTube content. What do you guys think? Honestly, it's a bit hard for me to believe TV shows and movies would have a bigger influence on your speech than parents, friends, workmates and so on, specially for people who are well beyond the college age. Sorry for any bad english. Also, i'm not talking about L2 speakers like myself, but rather native speakers from anglophone countries.

Jake Munro: Born in London, raised in Swansea and lives in Belfast. https://youtu.be/fNmIW-AvBN4 (To me, he has the strongest american accent out of the three, to a point where i thought it was fake at first, but after watching his other videos, it seems consistent).

Tom Ska: Born in Essex, raised in Cambridge. https://youtu.be/qEpVIDgARsY

Kayla from Toxic Tears: Born and raised in Belfast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbdppcAOqJA

For comparison, i will link to a video of a girl who has grown up in both England and the US, so you could say she has a "true" transatlantic accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcw-kylXI3c
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I don't believe there's any way to embed a custom font in the forum software. You could of course use images, but that would be limiting.

(In principle, additional characters could eventually be added to standard unicode so they could be used anywhere, but that would take years of procedural steps, and I believe that anticipated general usage is required, rather than just usage in a historical manuscript.)
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Feedback, Help and Forum Policy / How may I insert words encoded in Voynich fonts?
« Last post by milton63 on March 10, 2022, 10:15:44 AM »
I have been using Voynich fonts in articles and would like to use them in my posts here. Does anybody know how to do it? Those font faces are my own creation and no problem people using it freely. I believe that seeing Voynich letters as it is in the text would give more direct insights.
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Outside of the box / Re: Unsure of the correct term...
« Last post by K2 on March 10, 2022, 07:09:44 AM »
Thanks Daniel for your guidance. I had hoped there was a formal term (that was easy to look up for the reader), but in retrospect I think you're right. I've avoided some linguistic terms in many cases due to the complex nature of them. I'll work up a way (or use what I had) to convey what I intend to the reader.

Thanks again!

K2
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Outside of the box / Re: Unsure of the correct term...
« Last post by Daniel on March 10, 2022, 12:55:49 AM »
An "eye dialect" is basically a literary device to indicate that a character speaks with an accent. See various examples such as in Huckleberry Finn. (My impression is that "eye dialects" are sometimes exaggerated in the spelling to give the impression of a distinctive pronunciation, rather than intended to actually accurately represent the way someone speaks, but more to highlight differences. The more exaggerated, the more likely the label "eye dialect" will be used, although of course various degrees of distinctive spelling can be found in literary works.)

That seems somewhat different from what you're trying to do from how you've previously described your project. It's not completely different, and you could call it that if you want, though.

I'm not sure what "pronunciation respelling" would mean (at least not precisely).

As I think I've answered for other questions, what you're doing is art, not science, so there's no need to be constrained by technical terminology, just use whatever seems most convenient for your readers.
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Outside of the box / Unsure of the correct term...
« Last post by K2 on March 09, 2022, 10:19:16 PM »
Hi Folks; This may be the wrong section to ask (if so my apologies), but I have a simple question regarding my conlang-ish pidgin.

In the novel I use English alphabet spellings (romanized due to its own alphabet?), written in such a way that the reader should easily be able to sound out the word. In the appendix I note that the novel spelling does not match the actual pidgin spelling (based upon its own rules).
E.g. donya : danya [dahn-yah]: don’t you (novel : romanized pidgin [MP]: translation), [MP]= to explain the pronunciation to you.

When explaining that, am I writing the novel spelling as an 'eye dialect' or is it a 'pronunciation respelling?'

Thanks for your help! Hope all is well with you folks :)

K2
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