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91
English / Re: "Please" as a verb
« Last post by Daniel on September 27, 2017, 10:32:45 PM »
Quote
I would have thought that the meaning in "I do as I please" is closer to the old "please to help me" than to "the book pleases me". The first two have the idea of "be pleased to", "be willing to", "wish", whereas the third has quite a distinct meaning, i.e. "give pleasure to".
Yes, that is the middle-voice, intransitive, (pseudo-reflexive) "I please [myself] by/to...", still found (only) in those idiomatic cases.
92
English / Re: "Please" as a verb
« Last post by Audiendus on September 27, 2017, 09:49:12 PM »
I suppose that the transitive ("it pleases me") sense was detransitivized (e.g., middle voice?) as in "I please [myself]", and that usage has mostly disappeared except for some idioms (like you gave) and the later grammaticalization as a politeness marker/adverb.
Thanks.

I would have thought that the meaning in "I do as I please" is closer to the old "please to help me" than to "the book pleases me". The first two have the idea of "be pleased to", "be willing to", "wish", whereas the third has quite a distinct meaning, i.e. "give pleasure to".
93
English / Re: "Please" as a verb
« Last post by Daniel on September 27, 2017, 09:09:53 PM »
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Similarly, "will/would/can/could you please do X". (Should "please" still be regarded as a verb in such instances?)
No. It's an adverb. Note that for example it's the same placement as 'not'.

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Also, this verb survives in sentences such as "I do as I please" and "You can do what you please".
Those are idioimatic (or just a different meaning), but you are correct.
Of course 'please' also more generally survives as a verb as in "It pleases me", but not in the sense given in the original question here. I suppose that the transitive ("it pleases me") sense was detransitivized (e.g., middle voice?) as in "I please [myself]", and that usage has mostly disappeared except for some idioms (like you gave) and the later grammaticalization as a politeness marker/adverb.
94
English / Re: "Please" as a verb
« Last post by Audiendus on September 27, 2017, 07:22:16 PM »
However, historically it was a verb, and could be used like "please to help me" as a command, or "if you please" (which is still possible today, but very formal) as in French s'il vous plaƮt.
Similarly, "will/would/can/could you please do X". (Should "please" still be regarded as a verb in such instances?)

Also, this verb survives in sentences such as "I do as I please" and "You can do what you please".

95
Feedback, Help and Forum Policy / Re: What kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated?
« Last post by Daniel on September 27, 2017, 06:47:31 PM »
To clarify, my intent isn't to ban you. But you seem to be interested in figuring out what it will take.

There are a couple ways of answering your question:

1. Conduct yourself as you would in normal human interaction, at a school, a restaurant, a job, whatever. If you're annoying people or making things too personal, you'll be asked to leave. Maybe the waiters at a restaurant are terrible: if you stand on your table and start yelling about it, what do you think will happen? Remember, you can always leave the restaurant if you don't like the food (or service).

2. Many of your posts seem to be on (or over) the line of trolling, when someone interacts online only to cause problems. Please prove me wrong about that.

3. FlatAssembler might be entirely wrong. But it's not your job to harass someone if they're wrong. FlatAssembler has contributed genuine questions and ideas to the forum. You have not contributed anything yet aside from, well, skepticism, which by itself isn't a contribution at all. Everything in linguistics might be wrong. There, I said it, now you don't have to. And if that's how you feel, then you shouldn't be here. If you think there is something to be gained by still discussing these ideas, great.

Overall, whether someone is banned is, I suppose, a simple equation: are they contributing more than they are causing problems?

(You are correct that FlatAssembler's 'theories' post was also crossing a line, but one you've crossed repeatedly. My intention is not to ban or censor people here, and if you notice I asked FlatAssembler to not do that again. So at best your argument here could show that both of you should be banned, except that (1) FlatAssembler has been contributing other things that outweigh that small action, and (2) that was exaggerated, but what do you expect when you claim Latin was never a spoken language and otherwise only attack other theories? Did you really expect agreement?)

---

In short, no one will be banned for expressing ideas. Someone might be banned for interacting in an unpleasant way.

Just common sense.

If you want to continue to interact here, then I suggest contributing. Ask or answer questions, and leave it at that.

--

In short, for any reasonable sort of interaction here, you shouldn't even have to ask this question.
96
Feedback, Help and Forum Policy / What kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated?
« Last post by LinguistSkeptic on September 27, 2017, 11:39:28 AM »
So, I've already been threatened a few times by the moderators that I would be banned from this forum. However, there are people here who behave at least as badly as I do on this forum, yet they are praised. For example, FlatAssembler. Once he made a personal insult to me, yet nobody reacted.
http://linguistforum.com/historical-linguistics/was-latin-ever-a-spoken-language/msg25098/#msg25098
Quote from: FlatAssembler
WTF are you smoking?
The other time, he made a long and unclear post as an opening to a thread.
http://linguistforum.com/outside-of-the-box/croatian-toponyms/
When I asked him to explain what he meant, he called me an "uneducated conspiracy theorist", and linked me to a thread making fun of me:
http://linguistforum.com/outside-of-the-box/croatian-toponyms/msg25107/#msg25107
Quote from: FlatAssembler
Just because you have no idea how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work at all. Get educated, and then return to this forum. Otherwise, THIS is how you sound now:
http://linguistforum.com/linguist's-lounge/airplanes-don't-exist-(a-parody-of-the-conspiracy-theorists)/
Then, after other people agreed that he was unclear, he has simply been refusing to respond.
So, why is he praised by the moderators, while I am being threatened to be banned?
97
Historical Linguistics / Re: Was Latin ever a spoken language?
« Last post by ForumExplorer on September 26, 2017, 11:15:20 PM »
This thread is so hilarious! Thanks for making my day!
98
Morphosyntax / Re: The meaning of a sentence
« Last post by Daniel on September 26, 2017, 09:27:15 PM »
Yes, that does seem like a good example. As a three-word phrase with a syntactically anomalous verb in the middle, it's very hard to imagine that ever being a constituent.
(The explanation is probably just historical reduction of a large phrase after compounding occurred, though, so now it's a single lexical item. I'm not sure what theoretical import that results in.)
I'm not sure that's what they had in mind though: I think their point was that "thumbs up" does occur as a linear sequence in speech but is not a structural constituent. Since "happy-go-lucky" would never occur in that sequence, it isn't a constituent, but it may also not be an example of the phenomenon they were pointing out. I'm not sure without more context from the original source though.
99
Morphosyntax / Re: The meaning of a sentence
« Last post by Audiendus on September 26, 2017, 08:44:47 PM »
So they'd need to show that the phrase never occurs as a syntactic constituent in any sentence, and I find it unlikely.
Is "happy-go-lucky" (as in "a happy-go-lucky attitude") an example of a non-syntactic-constituent phrase used in a phrase + noun combination?
100
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Identify Language
« Last post by Daniel on September 26, 2017, 08:43:24 PM »
The image you uploaded appears to be cropped so there is no writing visible.
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