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Historical Linguistics / Re: Historical linguistics for music
« Last post by Joustos on February 15, 2018, 02:05:35 PM »
Dear Befuddled, perhaps now I can get closer to addressing your concern: In so many (or so few) words, I have been speaking of the "anatomy" of European music-systems. So, when you hear some music which has a different anatomy, you cannot grasp it, and you even wander whether it is music at all. [We are already involved in the ambiguities of the word "Music", which I will not try to clarify.] We should realize that a music piece is not linguistic at all. The major difference between it and a poem or a speech or a sentence is that the music is not  denotative; it does not say anything about any thing. Speaking is directed to some mind and conveys some message. At the most we can say that music is directed to the "heart" (as the supposed organ of emotions and moods). The ancient Greek theorists realized that each "Mode" -- associated with certain rhythms -- has a certain feeling or "tone" [Gr. Tonos]: exuberant or lugubrious or lascivious. Some modern theorists, too, admit that melodies composed according to diverse scales imply different moods, such as exuberant in major-tone compositions and lugubrious in minor-tone compositions. Many music lovers agree that music ("classical music") expresses or provokes emotions, and I know that at least one musicologist analyzed works of Tchaikovsky to show specifically how he fashioned melodies to express various emotions. Vocal music and especially some operas are loaded with emotion-expressing melodies. So, music (either eastern or western) which does not touch the hear does not seem to be music at all. The music systems and the talents of the composers are responsible for Emotive Music and Abstract Music. I think we can agree in this, that music is any beautiful composition (or sequence) of sounds.
Sociolinguistics / Re: Urban dialect
« Last post by Daniel on February 15, 2018, 12:42:18 PM »
I believe that is what the term means. A (usually distinctive) dialect of a dense population in a city. An example would be, of course, a "New York accent". But just like other dialects, boundaries and sizes are not clear.

I think the term "urban dialect" sometimes refers to minority ethnic/racial, or just the general/non-upper class, populations specifically, but it shouldn't be limited to that meaning. Whatever is a distinctive description of how people speak in a particular urban area.

Of course the best source for this would be to look at current research (or textbooks) that use the term and give examples. It would be very easy to find dozens of examples on Google Books just by searching the term, for example.
Sociolinguistics / Urban dialect
« Last post by dalila on February 15, 2018, 12:35:21 PM »
Hi everybody, can you give me the definition of "urban dialect" . I searched the web but I couldn't find it. I think an urban dialect is a dialcet spoken in the city (obviously) as opposed to a rural dialect spoken in rural areas, but I think such definition is just too generic and inaccurate.
You can also give me an example.
Phonetics and Phonology / Re: phonetics and phonology-connected speech doubt?
« Last post by panini on February 15, 2018, 10:58:43 AM »
It's pretty much the transparent combination of "my" and "town/turn". You can get connected-speech effects in other phrases, like "might own" (vs. "my tone").
Phonetics and Phonology / Re: linking vowel to vowel - glide
« Last post by panini on February 15, 2018, 10:47:03 AM »
I don't see any way to decide that in lieu of a specific token or at least basic dialect information. You could record yourself for a few days and see how you actually pronounce the sequence.
Historical Linguistics / Re: The original first language.
« Last post by Daniel on February 14, 2018, 01:12:27 PM »
So, the theory of the monogenesis of humans and of languages must be rejected.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of there being a first language, but at least many tens of thousands of years ago, to reach the current level of linguistic diversity today. Languages don't pass down genetically; they spread through cultural contact. As for the genetics, it's also more complex than that, because mutations can occur after speciation, so if you go back far enough there could have been just a single pair from which we all descend. But probably back so far it would be before humans, perhaps before mammals, or even animals. Another complication is genetic bottlenecks, where there have been proposals of "mitochondrial Eve" (and similar) suggesting we all have in common a particular shared female ancestor, although not that there was no additional mixing outside of that through the males such that generations mixed afterwards and eventually converged so we all have traces of that individual. It's complicated.

And of course the opposite possibility, that there were multiple origins of both language and species. Without a time machine, it's hard to be certain. But however it works out, you are correct that ~6000 years is far too short a time for any of the known facts to line up with monogenisis at that time.
Historical Linguistics / Re: The original first language.
« Last post by Joustos on February 14, 2018, 12:33:56 PM »
I heard that the Jewish language was the oldest in the world. Question, why are there so many languages in the world to start with? Is there a difference between the Jewish language and all languages today and how did English come from the German language? Linguistone  :)
This is a question that various people ask at various times, and that is why I take it up, too. The answer is given in the Hebrew Bible, almost in the same breath as the affirmation that all humans descend from .a first man (Adam). Both positions can be refuted empirically: By doing etymological investigations, it can be shown that Hittite, Canaanite, and the modern European languages cannot be traced back to Biblical Hebrew. (Rather, Hebrew had diverse sources.) As for humans, you need to know that racial traits (physiognomy, colour, etc,) are inherited, and that opposite traits could not have  belonged to the first human couple. So, the theory of the monogenesis of humans and of languages must be rejected.
Language-specific analysis / Re: Do you know the meaning of divine names?
« Last post by Joustos on February 14, 2018, 09:26:46 AM »
A follow-up on my above second post:
It seems to me that Zeys < Gr. Zeyxis (= a yoking, a joining). So, originally was the name "Zeys" the name of a harnessed ox or bull for plowing the soil? If so, the name was also Belos (= bull), which became Baal for the Babylonians and the Hebrews in the Middle East, where agriculture and plowing took place. The divine Bull was the sky that rains (or "urinates") and thus fecundates the soil. The worship of Baal was primarily of his Peos ( >Penis in Latin), which is the fecundating organ in more ways than one. This worship was detested by the Hebrews, who had a different rain-god, Yahweh [ieye]. This rain-god was invoked by Greeks as "Iakkhe". The invocation was always a prelude to the Eleusinian Mysteries (or rites), which feature Demeter (the grains-goddess) and her offspring Kore. But this is another story, which we may discuss later.
Historical Linguistics / Re: Historical linguistics for music
« Last post by Joustos on February 14, 2018, 07:22:53 AM »
Dear Befuddled  :
For the Greeks, music was what we call poetry. Verses were built according to a pattern of short and long syllables, like the "iamb". Instrumental dances were created similarly by rhythmic patterns. If a song (or chant)was accompanied by a lyre or a kythara, there might result consonances [preferred] or dissonances. So, there were investigators of "harmony" (diaphonic or polyphonic}, such as Pythagoras and clerics in the Middle Ages. Finally, what makes for different types of music [Greek, Chinese, modern European or "classical"] is the organization of the tones (or sound pitches) employed in music. Most Western music employs, in the Greek tradition, seven tones, like A,B,C,D,E,F,G, or tones which are between them, like A-sharp and B-flat. Greek and Medieval music is called Modal because any composition uses a group of any seven tones. A group or Mode is named after its first tone. Since the 14th century, compositions have been "Tonal" or Scalar, and each scale is named after the last or concluding tone, such as C-major or C-minor. And there is more to say about the specific feel of modern western music...
Language-specific analysis / Re: Do you know the meaning of divine names?
« Last post by Joustos on February 13, 2018, 07:43:01 PM »
I modified my original message by additional points, which were lost when I tried to save them. Basically, I was saying:
In Aeolic Greek, "Zeus" and "Deus" [genitive: dios] were used interchangeably. The Aeolic and Lakonian (Spartan; Doric) Deus is like the Latin Deus (= god; theos in Greek). However, Zeus, Deus, and God remain semantically obscure, and we have no way of telling what some humans originally encountered that may have prompted them to call it by these names. Some etymologists have seen a cognate root in Latin Dies = day, bright) and the goddess Diana [of daytime]. Pokorny agreed and posited the P.I.E. root "Dyeu-" Unfortunately, the Greek word for Day or Dies is Hemera, which is unrelated to Zeus/Deus. The relevant root is found in Gr. Zeuktos (=yoked; joined), which plowing agricultural people would have used. Zeus was named in this context: Huei ho theos (= the god [Zeus] rains). Zeus is not the bright sky; in fact, as legends tell, Zeus is the gatherer of storm clouds; rains; etc.
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