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FAQ Discussion / Where is Administration linguistforum.com ??
« Last post by Bogdanvhz on August 31, 2018, 01:56:34 PM »
Where is admin?
It is important.
Thank.
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Morphosyntax / Re: A question about syntax
« Last post by Daniel on August 26, 2018, 10:29:00 AM »
Well, that's actually a complicated question. It depends on how you analyze things. Nominalized clauses (e.g., with "that") act like nouns. So the distinction between CP and NP can seem to fade away.

Another way to address this is to question what type of clause that is. Are you considering it a relative clause modifying 'fact'? In that case, your second approach makes sense.

So the first approach seems like it might work, but probably not quite like that. The problem is that even if you wanted to consider that whole structure a CP*, it's not clear what position within it NP would take. It's not the subject or topic within that clause (right?) so it doesn't seem like it would fit with that structure.

In summary, there are two ways to address this:
1. Consider structural and semantic analyses that clarify the best representation.
2. Focus just on constituency, such as matching up heads and phrases to see what should go where. This is probably where your instinct to switch to option 2 came in.

By the way, looking at heads and phrases for constituency can actually be easier if you draw out the full trees, so that's one reason to do it even if you're confident about the structure within those phrases above. (I realize it's time-consuming to write out the trees here, so I'm not objecting to that, just mentioning it for your own notes as you sketch these things out. Even just indicating the head by underlining it or something could help you to think about these issues.)

[*Indeed, a CP can act as the subject, because "the fact" is optional! So this is on alternative hypothesis you could consider.
Actually, one further possibility would be to extend this by analogy to assume that even without "the fact" there is some noun head there converting the CP to an NP, so you'd have to imagine a silent "N" element that takes the same position as "the fact" in your second approach, and that might be a reasonable way to go. Of course some might say that "that" actually does that itself, although it's then debatable whether the resulting structure is a CP or NP. These details can get complicated.]
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Morphosyntax / A question about syntax
« Last post by Muikkunen on August 26, 2018, 09:14:27 AM »
Recently I participated in a summer school and I took intro to syntax. In one of my homeworks, I had to draw a tree for "The fact that he is tall bothers him". I've done it. There were no corrections for this sentence, so I assumed it to be correct and didn't pay much attention to it anymore. However, after I looked at it today, it seemed to be wrong to me, so I redrew it in a different way, which I believe to be correct, but wanted to clarify here to be sure.

(I've drawn full trees, but I omit here the parts which I'm sure are correct).

This is the first tree (drawn at the summer school):


This is the second one (drawn today):


Am I right that the second tree is the correct one?
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Language-specific analysis / Re: Hungarian and Slovak language border
« Last post by Daniel on August 25, 2018, 10:48:21 AM »
I have little to add to panini's excellent discussion above, except to also point out that bilingualism can be stable and maintained in certain situations. This sounds like one of them. There actually are bilingual or even trilingual(+) villages in the world where it's simply the norm that people shift between languages for daily communication. In the right circumstances, the result may be stability rather than eventually shifting to just one language for the whole village, or creating some sort of mixed variety. I know I've seen examples like this from reading about different communities in passing, but I can't list them at the moment (I think there are some cases like this in India and Australia?). If you're interested in the topic, then that might be one way to indirectly research the topic.
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Language-specific analysis / Re: Hungarian and Slovak language border
« Last post by Okram123xF on August 25, 2018, 09:42:51 AM »
I have to thank you for the detailed answer. I had a feeling that this question was particularly difficult,mainly because of the lack of sources and studies on this subject. Even though my knowledge on the subject is non-existent and the question arose purely out of curiosity,I gained a better perspective on it. As you said,the social pressures and the relationships between the speakers themselves must be the key to all of this. I wish there was a study on this. But again,thank you for taking the time to answer this curiosity of mine!
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Language-specific analysis / Re: Hungarian and Slovak language border
« Last post by panini on August 25, 2018, 09:05:27 AM »
Pidgins don't actually arise that way, instead, they depend on repeated but intermittent short-term contact between two groups. For instance, Chinook Jargon arose from casual trade contact between various tribes of the Northwest, where there wasn't enough long-term contact for one side to learn the other's language.

It is expected that there could be substantial influence between Hungarian and Slovak, so that a Hungarianized dialect of Slovak could develop. Countering this, though, are normative pressures to conform to the standard language. In fact, the situation there is so complex that I question the possibility of getting an accurate answer. There are legal and social pressures for Hungarians in Slovakia to Slovakify, and countervailing social pressures to Hungarify. (And vice versa in Hungary, though to a lesser extent as I understand, since there are many fewer Slovaks in Hungary and they are more dispersed). The only reliable research method would be to surreptitiously record conversations between known individuals, and observe the behavior of pure Hungarian-on-Hungarian interactions, compared to Hungarian-on-Slovak interactions. (Fluent bilingual people switch languages quickly when a monolingual or marginally bilingual person joins – may to include the person, maybe to exclude them).

The hypothesis that one would want to test is that Hungarians in Slovakia all speak "regular Hungarian", but may increase Slovak features when a Slovak speaker is added to the conversation. There are very many outcomes possible from this grand experiment. The problem is that there is a lot of personal knowledge stuff that has to be controlled for, such as whether Sally hates Hungarians or not, whether Sally is hated by the Hungarians, how fluent Sally is in Hungarian, etc.

If one were a linguist growing up in the Hungaro-Slovak region, one might specific properties of the local Hungarian that can be attributed to Slovak influence (or the other way), and then perhaps devise a very subtle method for measuring that feature. The other problem is, though, that there is no such thing as "regular Hungarian", so one would need to compare a suspected feature with what is found in relevant dialects in Hungary. Northern dialects of Hungarian seem to be quite understudied.

It would be really interesting to know all of this, I just don't see any way that the experiment could actually be conducted.

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Language-specific analysis / Hungarian and Slovak language border
« Last post by Okram123xF on August 25, 2018, 06:58:32 AM »
I was watching a documentary on the hungarian population in Slovakia. At one point in the documentary,they interviewed a lady from the village of Ipeľské Predmostie. When they asked her a question about the relationship between hungarians and slovaks,she answered by saying that they're absolutely friendly and the hungarians and slovaks living there speak both languages. This got me thinking:is there a sort of pidgin,formed by the mix of the slovak and hungarian languages?How do these different ethnic groups communicate with one another in daily life?And also,if anyone knows about influences of the hungarian language in the slovak speech near the border,a clarification would be highly appreciated. Thanks!
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Linguist's Lounge / The Voiceless Voice
« Last post by Nume on August 24, 2018, 07:50:47 PM »
I've been studying language development so I was beyond excited when I came across an upcoming book, The Voiceless Voice, written by a language development student, Alexandra Casavant. She's specializing in the diagnosis and treatment of language disorders, and these themes are covered throughout this collection of short stories. They're fictional stories that are meant to help empower those who have yet to find their voice. At the same time, they're also supposed to help instruct others to understand the struggles of those who are struggling to find their voice.
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Historical Linguistics / Re: Nicknames in Various Historical Cultures
« Last post by Nume on August 24, 2018, 07:42:28 PM »
OED did an article about the development of names throughout English history, including a section about pet forms of personal names.

The Oxford Handbook of Names and Naming might be a useful resource for you as well.
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Semantics and Pragmatics / Re: Help me pick the right words
« Last post by Nume on August 24, 2018, 07:23:16 PM »
The middle ground for common and rare would probably be uncommon. I've seen that in games before. The middle ground between old and modern is a little bit trickier. Perhaps rather than old, you could call them relics and then the middle ground one could be antiques?
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