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Linguistics Links / Re: Takineko's Japanese Lessons
« Last post by waive15 on October 25, 2020, 08:32:48 AM »

Here is the book

Eiichi Kiyooka - Japanese in Thirty Hours [1953, PDF, ENG]

/the link will not last long so one can get the book from rutracker org
/just register and in the search box enter Eiichi Kiyooka


Lesson 10

Here is a man.

The Japanese language makes distinction between living things and inanimate things. For men, animals and general living things i-masu is used while for things which do not move - including trees and plants - ari-masu is used. ..."


imek = i + mek (inf. suffix)


olmak = ol + mak

-mek/-mak  (if the vowel before it is soft or hard)


If one goes to References of ( and

1. presses on “*er-"
2. presses on "+" after

Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology +

/it is the 2nd line, below
Proto-Turkic: *er-/

one gets

Japanese: *àr-

            E - A
       /*er- - *ar-/


Have a nice day.
Outside of the box / Re: simple sentence. pronunciation
« Last post by waive15 on October 25, 2020, 07:58:28 AM »


ei(y) - "German" [ai]

/y - Greek i (ee), rather Greek Upsilon (u)/

ie     - "German" [i:]


σ ---> c/g [s/k/g]

ς ---> s


eu - ...

au - ...

/E - A/

//Greek Upsilon (u) gives u/v/y//




Thank you.
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Is preserving languages a good thing?
« Last post by Forbes on October 23, 2020, 04:18:35 AM »
If you ask: "Is it a good thing that there are so many different languages in the world today?" you are really asking if we should all be speaking the same language. That is a question not that different from any of the following questions:

Should we all eat the same food?
Should we all follow the same religion?
Should we all wear the same clothes?
Should we all like the same music?

In different places at different times a given language may be hooked to any one or more of the following: race; ethnicity; nationality; religion; custom. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that until you start insisting that you cannot be an x unless you speak y. Once you do that you are on the road to oppression. Equally wrong is insisting that if y is your native tongue you must be an x. The end of that road is Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer.
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Is preserving languages a good thing?
« Last post by Rock100 on October 22, 2020, 04:27:50 AM »
> So, what do you guys here think, is preserving languages a good thing? In other words,
> is it a good thing that there are so many different languages in the world today?
Personally I think there are at least these reasons for languages to be preserved:
1. Nationalism. Some of you might probably want to change it to the “healthy nationalism” – as you will.
2. Conspiracy. There may be a lot of reasons for a group of people to be able to communicate in secret. Nationalities are the groups so they do not need to invent a code for this purpose – they already have their languages.
3. Authentication purposes. It is connected to the two above but I have decided to single it out. There are situations when one need to prove the belonging to a group. That is a thieves' Latin may be used for. Nationalities do not need to invent a jive they have their languages already.
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Is preserving languages a good thing?
« Last post by Forbes on October 22, 2020, 03:34:16 AM »
The death of any language has to be lamented. Language is one of the ways in which humans express themselves and each language is unique. The death of a language is the death of a unique mode of human expression.

To employ a medical term I am not sure that a lot can be achieved by putting endangered languages on a life support machine. The really important thing though is not to impose solutions from outside but to find out what the speakers want. The loss of a language may be accompanied by other changes such as moving from a remote village to a large city, eating different food, wearing different clothes and abandoning local customs. Young people in particular will want to fit in. They may equate the language of their grandparents with the sort of life their parents wanted to change for what they perceived to be a better one. No one with a liberal disposition will tell someone what they should wear or eat, but can be over keen on encouraging them to keep in touch with their "culture" within which they include language. It is all too easy for culture to become an instrument of oppression.

It is interesting to note that liberal opinion has in fact shifted 180 degrees over the last few hundred years. When most of South America was part of the Spanish Empire the authorities, and in particular the Church, took the view that the indigenous peoples should stick to their own languages to discourage them from getting too organised on a large scale. In fact, significant resources were put into studying the indigenous languages. With the coming of independence the view was that if you could not speak Spanish you were disenfranchised. Accordingly Spanish was encouraged. The idea was no doubt picked up from the French Revolution. The effects of the French Revolution in France with respect to encouraging French are still evident today. Withing living memory children who spoke local languages were actively discouraged from using them in school. Encouraging a national langauge does not have to involve discouraging a local language, but in practice that is what often happens.

There are many reasons for languages being lost, but it is not really helpful to dwell on them. The fact that a language has been actively suppressed or heavily discouraged is not really a good reason on its own to revive or preserve it. The sole criterion must be whether the speakers of the language (and not those who purport to represent them) want to keep it. Governments should be no more than facilitators if a community wants to preserve its language. Whilst a balance needs to be kept between national and local languages, no authority should be encouraging one at the expense of the other. If we are to live in a world where diversity is celebrated language must be included. However, whilst language may for some be an important part of who they are, no language should become a badge of identity.

I cannot see languages like Croatian disappearing anytime soon nor do I see any need for them to do so.
Linguist's Lounge / Is preserving languages a good thing?
« Last post by FlatAssembler on October 21, 2020, 09:46:15 PM »
So, what do you guys here think, is preserving languages a good thing? In other words, is it a good thing that there are so many different languages in the world today?
I've studied quite a bit of linguistics, and linguistics doesn't really seem to give us an answer to that question. And more I think about it, more it seems to me that it's not a good thing. The losses that different languages cause are obvious: a lot of resources and time is spent on translation, a lot of resources and time is spent on language learning, language barriers undoubtedly make it easier to implement censorship... And the benefits of keeping the languages are questionable.
Sure, for scientific reasons, it's a good thing to document languages before they disappear. But that's it, document the languages that are already there. Keeping the languages alive won't reveal us secrets of historical linguistics. Languages that could give us information to solve the mysteries of historical linguistics, such as, when it comes to Croatian toponyms, Illyrian or Pelasgian, those languages have been dead for millennia. Wasting resources to preserve modern languages won't bring them back.
In some ideal world in which there was some language, such as Esperanto, which everybody knew, preserving languages wouldn't be so wasteful, and maybe not even so pointless. But that's not what's going on. In some parts of Africa, people are forced to learn more than three languages just to be able to communicate on a job.
Do I really gain something by some relatively small language, such as Croatian, being my native language, instead of some big language such as English, Spanish, Chinese or Russian? I don't see it. As far as I can see, there is nothing useful available in Croatian that's not available in English. Sometimes, on the Internet, there is useful stuff (when it comes to programming, for example) available in Chinese or Russian but not in English, but I don't see that there is anything useful available in Croatian but not in English.
Even when it comes to Croatian history and current events, am I really more qualified to talk about those things just because I speak Croatian? Or does it, in fact, lead me astray? I thought I was more qualified to talk about Croatian history because I could search for ironic meanings in names and assert that an event is mythological, and people who don't speak Croatian can hardly search for ironic meanings in names. In this case, knowledge of Croatian has led me astray. And who knows about my alternative interpretation of the Croatian toponyms, has studying Croatian toponyms led me closer to the truth, or if I would be closer to the truth if I simply trusted the mainstream linguistics (most of which is available in English).
Linguist's Lounge / Re: What surprised you the most when learning a foreign language?
« Last post by waive15 on October 19, 2020, 06:39:54 AM »

"So, I am interested, what are some things about languages that surprised you the most when learning another language? ... "


barbarian /

...from PIE root *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners ...


19:37 ...


"... The funny thing about these Gods was that they couldn't speak. They could only make ?#!@!? sounds like monkeys.


"The hairy one could speak."

The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980)

What surprised you the most when learning a foreign language?

How difficult it is to find the right grammar.

Have a nice day.
Linguist's Lounge / Re: What surprised you the most when learning a foreign language?
« Last post by Daniel on October 17, 2020, 06:51:55 PM »
A thought I had recently was how learning a third (or further) language is different from learning a second. With the second, you can still bend the rules in your mind from your native language to the second language, thinking of all differences as exceptions. But the third (and further) languages, you realize that languages just vary, and although comparing to familiar languages by analogy is still often useful, you stop relying on translation equivalents and exceptions to explain the new things you see.

Of course another funny effect is when there is L2 influence on the L3: for example, when I was taking a Swedish class, all of the students had already studied German, so we had, among other things, strange German accents (for no justifiable reason) in Swedish, as English speakers! So you never really move past using known languages as a base for learning others, but you can stop assuming that other languages should be like your native language plus exceptions.
So, I am interested, what are some things about languages that surprised you the most when learning another language? My native language is Croatian and I got very surprised to learn about the sequences of tenses. Before that, I used to think the rules for tenses in complex sentences in Croatian follow from the laws of logic. And, as it turns out, they are actually arbitrary complicated rules that vary between languages that have tenses, even among related languages.
Linguist's Lounge / Re: Pronounce "glacier"
« Last post by Rock100 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:38 PM »
> So I was born in the US, where I learned "glacier" was pronounced "GLAY-sher".
> Then I moved to the UK and learned that it was pronounced "GLASS-ee-er".
> Now apparently the UK pronunciation is "GLAY-see-er"? When did that happen and how did I miss it?
Hm… Rhotic pronunciation on the islands? I bet it is a slip of the keyboard or you are somewhere in between Somerset and Devon. And it looks like you do not travel a lot indeed. Yes, you need to drive several thousand miles in the US to encounter a frying pan, a skillet and even probably a spider. But you usually need to walk just a couple of blocks to hear glAHseeə-glAseeə-glAYseeə-glAsee-glAsyə-etc. in the UK. And if you decide to drive you shall hear more variants even with zh in between.
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