Specializations > Phonetics and Phonology

Suggest IPA Symbols for these vowel sounds

(1/4) > >>

MDbaloch:
Hi Everyone,

I am sharing some links of my pronunciation of some vowel sounds (3 long o, 3 long e, 2 short e and 2 short o sounds).
Please listen to these vowel sounds and suggest the perfect IPA symbols for each vowel sound. will be thankful to you

here are the links:

3 long o > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-o
2 short o > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-o
3 long e > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-e
2 short e > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-e

I think in the first case the IPA symbols for vowel sounds, are :
long o 1=[oː] or [øː]
long o 2=[o̞ː] or [ɔː]
long o 3=[uː]

and in the second case :
short o 1=[o̞] not [ʊ] as in "put" (GA) . to me, its the short form of long [o̞ː].
short o 2=[/u/] also not [ʊ] as in "put" (RP). its the short form of long [/uː/] as well.

and in the third case :
long e 1=[eː] or [ɪː] or [ɨː]
long e 2=[e̞ː] or [ɛː]
long e 3=[iː]

and in the forth one :
short e 1=[e] short form of long [eː] but more shorter than as in "bet"  (RP) or [ɛ] as in "pen" (RP)
short e 2=[/i/] the short form of long [iː] or [ɪ] as in "igloo" (PR)

am i right ? or .... ?

Daniel:
Are you asking about the pronunciation of IPA sounds in general? Or are you asking about the pronunciation of sounds in English (or another language) specifically?

[Note: I removed the bold formatting from your posts so it was easier to read.]



It's hard for me to tell you exactly what these sounds are without context for comparison (eg, a target word) or knowing your voice in general. (Everyone pronounces sounds differently, so it's only relative to one's specific voice that we know which vowels are being produced. My "u" might be your "o", if our voices are different in quality.)

But let's see:

3 long o > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-o
I hear variation in this, something like [o/u?:], [o:], [u:]
2 short o > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-o
I hear [o], [o], [u], [u]
These are short (in time) but not English "short vowels" (=lax in IPA).
3 long e > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-e
I hear [i:], [e:], [ij]
2 short e > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-e
I hear [e], [e/ɛ?], [i], [ɪ]
Again (for the first two) you are producing short vowels (in time) but not lax vowels.


I hope that helps. I need a little more information, but I'll be happy to discuss it more.

Are you trying to determine whether your pronunciation in English sounds like GA and/or RP? Or are you trying to learn IPA?

This website is very helpful:
http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/chapter1.html

A good methodology is this:
1. Think of a sound you want to identify.
2. Look on the vowel (or consonant chart) and try to locate it.
3. Listen to each sound and see if it sounds correct. Then identify the one that sounds best.

That works very well because we usually are very good at perceiving target sounds-- we know when the sound is just right.
However, if your perception of English is better than your production of English, you might actually perceive it well but still pronounce it wrong-- in that case we can listen to the vowels and tell you. But please identify the IPA target you are trying to produce (or an English word) first.

freknu:
What I hear is:

[oː ɔː uː]
[ɔ ʉ]
[i̞ː eː iː]
[e ɨ]

Following what seems to be a pattern, you get the following phonemes:

/oː ɔː uː/
/ɔ ʉ/ (or alternatively /ɔ u/)
/eː ɛː iː/
/ɛ ɨ/ (or alternatively /ɛ i/)

Daniel:
Hm...

[ø], [ʉ], [ɨ] and a couple others were suggested as transcriptions in the posts above. But those aren't phonemes in English.

My answer was based on English phonemes (and my own native-speaker categorical perception), with the results above. Phonetically it's possible that I'm off on that (because I'm assuming English perception), although none of the sounds seemed particularly wrong for the transcriptions I gave-- I wasn't intentionally simplifying them to unnatural transcriptions just for the sake of English. But again context for the question would help with that.

MDbaloch:

--- Quote from: djr33 on December 29, 2013, 03:20:44 PM ---Are you asking about the pronunciation of IPA sounds in general? Or are you asking about the pronunciation of sounds in English (or another language) specifically?

First of all, thank you so much for your detailed response.
Actually, i am asking about the pronunciation of IPA sound in "Balochi" language. which is a member of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family.

[Note: I removed the bold formatting from your posts so it was easier to read.]

agree, thanks again  :)

It's hard for me to tell you exactly what these sounds are without context for comparison (eg, a target word) or knowing your voice in general. (Everyone pronounces sounds differently, so it's only relative to one's specific voice that we know which vowels are being produced. My "u" might be your "o", if our voices are different in quality.)

these are balochi words and i am finding the perfect IPA symbols for these different vowel sounds.

But let's see:

3 long o > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-o
I hear variation in this, something like [o/u?:], [o:], [u:]

this is a Balochi word. the only difference is the vowel quality in these three form of this word, that changes the meaning of it. there are 2 consonants and one vowel sound. the starting consonant is /d/ and the ending one is /r/. well, i,ll try to write it in Roman
1= dor (pain)
2= dour/daor (time)
3= door (far)
i am almost clear about the vowel sound of third form of this word "door" that should be /du:r/ and a little bit about the vowel sound of second form of this word "dour/daor" that may be /do:r/.
but so confused about the vowel sound of the first form "dor" . which is i think less rounded as compare to /u:/ and more rounded than /o:/ as in "yawn" in Australian pronunciation. may be i am totally wrong !
 
2 short o > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-o
I hear [o], [o], [u], [u]
These are short (in time) but not English "short vowels" (=lax in IPA).


if i write this word in Roman it may be :
1= /kott/ as in "hook /hʊk/" in american pronunciation.
2= /kutt/ as in "buk /buk/" in Polish

may be these sounds are short tense vowels ?


3 long e > https://soundcloud.com/user963161033/3-long-e
I hear [i:], [e:], [ij]

this is again one word. the only difference is the vowel quality in this word, that changes the meaning of it. there are 2 consonants and one vowel sound. the starting consonant is /ʃ/ and the ending one is /r/. well, i,ll try to write  it in Roman
1= sheyr (Tiger)
2= shair (Poem)
3= sheer (Milk)
i am almost clear about the vowel sound of third form of this word "sheer" that should be /ʃiːr/.
and a little bit about the vowel sound of second form of this word "shair" that may be /ʃe:r/.
but so confused about the vowel sound of the first form "sheyr" . which is i think less closed as compare to /i:/ and more closed than /e:/ as in "bed" in NZ english. but it's just my opinion, I could be wrong !

2 short e > http://soundcloud.com/user963161033/2-short-e
I hear [e], [e/ɛ?], [i], [ɪ]
Again (for the first two) you are producing short vowels (in time) but not lax vowels.

again i write these 2 forms in Roman:
1= kett /kett/ as in "ken /ken/" in American pronunciation.
2= kitt/kitt/ as in "bit /bit/" in Australian pronunciation.

now, what is your observation ?


I hope that helps. I need a little more information, but I'll be happy to discuss it more.

Indeed, it helped me alot. but i need more specification. hope you will help me once again.

Are you trying to determine whether your pronunciation in English sounds like GA and/or RP? Or are you trying to learn IPA?

not at all, i am just to trying to find the perfect IPA symbol of these vowel sounds.
in fact, there is not enough details available on Balochi Phonetics. that is why i am trying to find IPA symbol for these vowel sounds.
I hope you will help me to find out these sounds. Thanks again !

This website is very helpful:
http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/chapter1.html

A good methodology is this:
1. Think of a sound you want to identify.
2. Look on the vowel (or consonant chart) and try to locate it.
3. Listen to each sound and see if it sounds correct. Then identify the one that sounds best.

That works very well because we usually are very good at perceiving target sounds-- we know when the sound is just right.
However, if your perception of English is better than your production of English, you might actually perceive it well but still pronounce it wrong-- in that case we can listen to the vowels and tell you. But please identify the IPA target you are trying to produce (or an English word) first.
let me tell you that i have searched a lot about IPA symbols and their sounds in many ways. but still confused.
but thank you so much for your guidance. i will check it out. thanks again and again !

--- End quote ---

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version