Author Topic: IPA to French  (Read 5538 times)

Offline Pramod Kumar Agrawal

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IPA to French
« on: January 18, 2015, 05:28:49 AM »
I have a simple question. Please refer
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/abandon?showCookiePolicy=true
The IPA pronunciation of a French word [étage] is /e t a ʒ/, but the available audio pronunciation suggests /ɪ t̪ ɑ ʒ/ (/t/ is dental). Which of them is correct?

Offline Daniel

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 10:58:42 AM »
I don't believe there would be a phonemic contrast between those two pronunciations so with natural variation it could be either. My best guess would be somewhere between the two but my French is limited.
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Offline Pramod Kumar Agrawal

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 12:01:38 PM »
Please open the site and listen it. You will see the difference between  /e/ and /ɪ/, and also between /t/ and /t̪ /. If it is alright, I will consider the written part to be correct and ignore the audio part.

Offline Daniel

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 01:22:52 PM »
This isn't the right methodology to compare subphonemic differences. What would "correct" mean anyway?
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Offline freknu

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 06:11:09 PM »
French only has /t/ which makes no distinction between [t] and [t̪].

Offline Pramod Kumar Agrawal

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 07:52:13 AM »
Thanks to frenku... .... and what about the difference between /e/ and /ɪ/ ? Should we consider that the actual pronunciation is somewhere in between /e/ and /ɪ/ ... or is there any mistake in audio sampling? .......or is there any mistake in my listening?

Offline freknu

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 08:04:41 AM »
If /e.taʒ/ is the phonemic transcription of {étage} then that is the phonemic transcription of {étage}.

Offline Pramod Kumar Agrawal

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 11:51:53 AM »
In French which of the symbol is right? /R/ or /ʁ/

Offline Jeff L.

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Re: IPA to French
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 05:10:23 PM »
If you're looking for the underlying form, it's often just marked as /r/ for simplicity (which also corresponds to a previous realisation by chance, still found in some regions -- see, for example, Laurentian French, though it's being lost).* If you want the way it's realised, then it's variable both regionally (ex: http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/h.vandevelde/onderzoek/Demolin.pdf) and even within speakers (ex: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~gillian/PAPERS/LifeChangeR.pdf), with some of the main options being: uvular trills or fricatives and alveolar trills. Phonologically, it's worth noting that it patterns with the voiced fricatives in the case of triggering lengthening (V --> V: / _ {v z ʒ r}), but that it does behave slightly differently in other respects (ability to be deleted, availability in clusters, devoicing (mostly in a cluster with voiceless obstruents)).

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* Less often, but still possible, the capital /R/ is used to show an abstraction, but, like in [R], will often refer to the uvular trill pronunciation for ease of typing.