Author Topic: Croatian toponyms  (Read 73755 times)

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #105 on: October 06, 2021, 08:25:26 AM »
OK, this "Fonoloska evolucija jezika" paper is, as far as I can tell, unlikely to ever get published in a peer-reviewed journal. So, I have written a rather different one this time: https://flatassembler.github.io/Karasica.doc What do you think, will I be able to publish it?

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #106 on: October 06, 2021, 08:54:53 AM »
You're not going to get much feedback here about a paper written in Croatian, and we can't answer whether a journal will accept it or not, but here are some thoughts:

1. This is shorter than most journal articles. Some short notes about etymology might be accepted, but I don't know if that applies here. And usually those would be a relatively standard format and argument, which this is not.
2. The paper is trying to do two different things at once. In academic publishing, a focused paper is usually obligatory. On the one hand, you discuss the details of this etymology. On the other, the middle of the paper is a long tangent about probability of etymological relationships, which would belong in a different paper. You might be able to split this into two papers, or expand on this to organize it better and address these points in detail and somehow bring them together a single purpose, but right now for that reason I don't this would be published. (In general, you should not be developing a new methodology and also proposing a specific analysis in the same paper. Neither will be well supported, or well received.)
3. Part of the publishing process is getting feedback. If you haven't published before, then you should seek feedback from experts, not from people you don't know online (even if they know about linguistics in general). Find a mentor (for a graduate student, this would be your advisor, so you might look for someone who could be like that for you). Or as a first step, you should present this at a conference. Conferences are generally much easier to access than publication, and they're a great way to get feedback, and also to see what other people are working on, so you'll learn a lot. Right now, given the pandemic, many conferences are online (and many are free), so they've never been more accessible in a practical sense. If you have not yet presented at a conference, you should try that before trying to publish. That may open some doors to publication, also, either directly through a proceedings volume, or by feedback and networking.
4. The fundamental problem with this paper is that it is not research by strict definition: you don't cite any sources! You have some footnotes referring to your own work. But you don't have a bibliography or cite anything published. That is immediately a reason that most journals would reject this. And to be clear: I'm not suggesting you throw a few references into this now. Good scholarship is built around the literature review, and informed by it, not tangentially connected. That will also help you to understand whether your paper is similar (in quality and method) to those that you are citing: if it is, then it is publishable. If not, it probably is not.
5. Be prepared for a months- or even years-long process for publishing. You will submit a draft, wait several months, get feedback from one or two reviewers, probably receive suggestions for revisions (probably substantial if you are just starting out, and especially if you are not very closely following standard methodologies), and then rewrite, possibly then going through several rounds of revisions, and after around a year the paper might be published. (If it is rejected, you could submit it elsewhere. Note also that a fast rejection would suggest they are not interested in seriously evaluating the paper, while a slow rejection or acceptance would mean reviewers took their time to look over it and decide.)

The most important thing you can do is to seek feedback, and then continue to develop and change your ideas based on that feedback. Research doesn't have an endpoint, just incremental improvements.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 10:42:52 AM by Daniel »
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2021, 05:01:40 AM »
Quote from: Daniel
4. The fundamental problem with this paper is that it is not research by strict definition: you don't cite any sources!
Don't you think I have shown enough familiarity with existing research? Like what etymologies for the river name Karašica are usually cited and what arguments are used to argue Illyrian is a satem language?

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2021, 05:29:04 AM »
Quote from: Daniel
Part of the publishing process is getting feedback.
And I am: https://flatassembler.github.io/toponyms#hear_both_sides

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2021, 08:36:15 AM »
Quote
Don't you think I have shown enough familiarity with existing research?
Absolutely not, because you did not cite any sources.

Quote
Like what etymologies for the river name Karašica are usually cited and what arguments are used to argue Illyrian is a satem language?
Your paper is about the etymology of one specific word, so these points are not directly relevant. It's like saying "You're hungry, therefore you must like to eat broccoli." One does not follow directly from the other, and this is similar to feedback you've been given multiple times here: obscure etymologies are hard to defend.

Quote
Quote
Part of the publishing process is getting feedback.
And I am...
Soliciting responses that agree with you is not the same as getting feedback in academic research/publishing. "Am I right?" is not the question you should be asking. Instead, it is "Who will agree to publish this as generally relevant and reliable to the scientific community?" It is crucial to understand that the reason papers are published is not because someone agrees with you, but because of scientific rigor in the submitted article. Having an idea is not the same thing as doing scientific research: your paper should closely resemble the format and methodology of other articles in the journal where you submit it. If it does, it may be published. If it does not, it probably won't be.

Also, if your research has scientific merit, then it should stand on its own, without any need to argue about whether or not you have a political agenda. Scientific research is objective, and is presented objectively, in relatively standard ways.

Regardless, what I say here doesn't really matter. What matters is whether it will be accepted or rejected by a journal. I've given you feedback, but if you think you're ready to submit it, go ahead, and assuming the editor is generally interested in the paper, it will be sent out for peer review, and you will get feedback and suggested revisions (along with a decision to accept or reject). But note that this is the least efficient way to get feedback on your work, because it will be a slow process, and if the decision is to reject the paper, then you probably can't submit it again to that same journal, so it's best to have already gone through this process yourself.

Seek feedback, and be prepared to revise your work. Don't just seek agreement.

Beyond that, I don't think I can offer any more advice. Trying to convince me or others here that your paper is already good enough is not a useful or relevant approach. You might also search online for advice about how to write research papers for publication, including standard practices, like citing sources, but also formatting, acceptable forms of argumentation, how to present your methodology, etc.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 08:39:06 AM by Daniel »
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2021, 04:13:55 PM »
(Syntax? Don't you mean phonology?)
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2021, 09:57:37 PM »
No, I meant syntax, the way words are put into sentences. Often requiring meaningless words such as "the", "that", "than", "it" (dummy pronoun)...

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2021, 10:56:53 PM »
I'm not familiar enough with that approach to comment. This is one of the reasons why I've recommended working in an established, well-known methodology.
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2021, 12:27:04 AM »
I'm not familiar enough with that approach to comment. This is one of the reasons why I've recommended working in an established, well-known methodology.
But what if that well-established methodology is the equivalent of blood-letting? What if it is subjective and does not work?

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2021, 09:19:18 AM »
Then maybe in a few hundred years everyone will agree with you. Until then, it will be hard to communicate with others about it.
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2021, 09:10:46 AM »
Then maybe in a few hundred years everyone will agree with you. Until then, it will be hard to communicate with others about it.
Or, more likely, I will, decades or centuries from now, be viewed as a homeopath or a Christian Scientist, somebody who disobeyed the (wildly wrong) mainstream, but did not reach the truth either.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #117 on: October 14, 2021, 10:33:48 PM »
The best advice that anyone can give you is to understand the mainstream (i.e. study Linguistics), then try to correct its flow, rather than only trying to swim against it.

And honestly, until you do that, few people will take your ideas seriously.

Science makes slow and steady progress, rarely any wild leaps. It's your choice if you want to be part of it or not, but these discussions will go in circles if you're not interested in engaging in the field with others in the field.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 10:35:21 PM by Daniel »
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Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2021, 04:56:02 AM »
The best advice that anyone can give you is to understand the mainstream (i.e. study Linguistics), then try to correct its flow, rather than only trying to swim against it.

And honestly, until you do that, few people will take your ideas seriously.

Science makes slow and steady progress, rarely any wild leaps. It's your choice if you want to be part of it or not, but these discussions will go in circles if you're not interested in engaging in the field with others in the field.
OK, now, I am not rejecting any actual mainstream linguistics. I am not denying the Havlik's Law there or anything like that. I am just applying a different methodology to studying ancient toponyms with limited data. There is no real consensus about whether Illyrian was centum or satem, yet alone something more (only that "klauhi zis" meant "Listen, Zeus!"), that I am going sharply against in my text.

Offline panini

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2021, 09:32:29 AM »
I think you are forgetting the question that you asked, which is whether you can get this paper published. The answer, as far as I can see, is "Yes", though I do not know where you could publish it. If you write in English, you would have available a much larger collection of outlets available. Furthermore, remember that "publish" means "make public", and right now you have the ability to publish this article (since you use github, I'm pretty sure you know how). Even if you don't want to self-publish, there are many people who are willing to publish for you for a modest fee.

Perhaps you want to publish for free in a journal with a good reputation. Linguistic Inquiry is an example, but I don't think there is any chance they would publish it even if you submitted an English version – they would reject it on subject-matter grounds. You could submit to other journals (Cognition, The Lancet, JASA, IJAL which would also reject it on subject-matter grounds, not even sending it out for review. You have to first identify some set of plausible venues, and then write appropriately for that journal. This has been my practice for decades – figure out a general topic, figure out who might publish it, then write in a manner appropriate to that journal (there can be only one: but if you are rejected, you pick another, and re-write).

You might publish in a journal like https://www.komunikacijaikultura.org/index.php/kk: there are almost a thousand that you can pick from at https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?category=1203&year=2018&page=18&total_size=864. This is by no means complete – I know of a number of excellent journals that are not included.

Since you reject traditional academic methodology, you should expect that journals that presuppose that methodology will reject you. So you have to first shop for a journal that does not care whether you have established the truth of your claim relative to competitor accounts, and does not care that you have clearly explained the issue and your solution in a fashion that others can judge the truth of your claims. You need to find a journal where readers are willing to take your claims on faith. Or, one where readers already share your particular beliefs and experiences. I claim that you are wrong about κορακινος meaning goldfish or any other fish or that it comes from Egyptian, so I reject a crucial step in your argument – so just look for a journal with readers who will not nitpick over factual claims.