Author Topic: Croatian toponyms  (Read 46147 times)

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2019, 06:32:57 AM »
Slightly related to the topic, in my statistical calculations, I assumed that, in unrelated toponyms, we can expect all the consonants and all the vowels to be equally common, that the only relic of the relative frequencies of the letters we see in texts will be that the vowels will be more common than consonants (because that's what makes toponyms pronounceable). However, after doing a little more research, I am not so sure that's a valid assumption. You can read more about that here:
https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/31164/what-causes-relative-frequency-of-consonants

Offline panini

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2019, 11:22:49 AM »
I don't understand your toponym argument, but theoretically you would be claiming that the rate at which certain consonants occur in toponyms in Croatia is significantly different from what you would expect based on the properties of proto-Slavic and relevant descendants. For example if k were a rare sound in Slavic, or r, but k...r is common in CTs, you have some evidence that CTs are not from Slavic. However you would need to also establish that CTs are not influenced by being compounds, where there is a single widely-used morpheme that happens to have a less-frequent consonant. For example, I think that v is a less-frequent consonant in Norwegian, but it turns out to be frequent in names of lakes (e.g. Juvvatnet, Prestvann) – because vatn~vann is the word for "water", commonly used to mean "small lake". This can skew your count.

Applied to CTs, the question is in part whether there exists a well-motivated source for some kr root. There is a poorly-attested root kʲer meaning something like "run", linked to horse, chariot and husar, but there are also similar roots meaning "increase; cherry; burn; hang; spoil" that have even less connection to rivers.

A lot of local place names are just seeming random sounds, except if you happen to know the language (now extinct) from which they originated. Tons of place name with ...mish, ...mie – because it means "people". Were it not for modern linguists, we would not know that fact.

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2020, 06:37:51 AM »
I got banned from 000webhost for "hate speech", and, as I don't think the things they complained about are actual hate speech (yet alone that it's fair to take down my entire website because of that), I moved my website to GitHub Pages. Here is the new link to my web-page about toponyms:
https://flatassembler.github.io/toponyms.html

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2020, 04:11:35 AM »
And what do you think about the updated version of Etymology Game? Does it produce convincing results? Why or why not?

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #94 on: March 11, 2020, 04:18:49 AM »
Also, in the newest version of my alternative interpretation of the Croatian toponyms, I've done some historical revisionism, as well as linguistic revisionism. For instance, I've argued that the name Lissa in antiquity referred to Ugljan, rather than to Pag (as the mainstream Croatian history claims).
Lissa < This toponym was attested in ancient times by Pliny the Elder in Naturalis Historia in 3rd book in the 63rd chapter as "Contra Iader est Lissa.", Iader being the ancient name for Zadar. The mainstream history generally considers that toponym to be a corruption of the ancient name for Pag, Cissa. However, I think that, if Pliny wanted to refer to Pag, he could a lot more appropriately write "contra Aenonam" or, even better, "contra Vegium" (Vegium being the ancient name for Karlobag), rather than "contra Iader". So, I think this toponym, in antiquity, referred to Ugljan. And I think that, in the late stages of Illyrian, that was the generic word for island, whichever root it comes from. Namely, the modern Italian name for Vis is Lissa, and the modern Italian name for Hvar is Lesina. The modern island name Lošinj, unattested in antiquity, could come from that same root.
Do you think that's dishonest of me?

Offline Daniel

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #95 on: March 11, 2020, 05:17:43 AM »
Quote
I've done some historical revisionism, as well as linguistic revisionism. ... Do you think that's dishonest of me?
You've answered your own question.

There's little left to discuss here: you've proposed your etymologies, and they're available for anyone interested to read.
Welcome to Linguist Forum! If you have any questions, please ask.

Offline FlatAssembler

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Re: Croatian toponyms
« Reply #96 on: March 11, 2020, 11:01:15 AM »
Quote
I've done some historical revisionism, as well as linguistic revisionism. ... Do you think that's dishonest of me?
You've answered your own question.

There's little left to discuss here: you've proposed your etymologies, and they're available for anyone interested to read.
And, do you think that me suggesting that "Lissa" was the ancient name for the island of Ugljan, even though the mainstream history considers it to refer to the island of Pag, makes my hypothesis significantly less credible?