Linguist Forum

General Linguistics => Linguist's Lounge => Outside of the box => Topic started by: waive15 on February 25, 2021, 11:13:02 PM

Title: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on February 25, 2021, 11:13:02 PM
Sometimes one cannot remember the spelling of a word.
/no internet, no telephone, no dictionary, no help - one is being examined/

===

Are you SMARTER than a 4th Grader?- Spelling Bee!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcuhDv9n9x0

===

English Words Americans Mispronounce ❌ Difficult English Words | Common Mistakes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sVMNMYNjA

===

English Words You’re Probably Mispronouncing ❌Difficult English Pronunciation | Rachel’s English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opKPVqxE_QY



Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign
Post by: panini on February 26, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
I believe there is already a thing called "Wiktionary", so for your new project you might give it a slightly different name. I have an entry request for you. There is some kind of plant grown in Ethiopia and Eritrea called something like "otter", which is used to make "shrow". I'd like a definition of these words, and any other information that you can provide. I'm glad you provided a translation into English of the description. Since I can't understand the other language you were writing in, please do provide an English version, if get anything.
Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign
Post by: Daniel on February 26, 2021, 08:12:32 PM
Why not use established standards from Linguistics, rather than reinventing the wheel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

Most of your posts here suggest you'd rather reinvent the wheel than actually study Linguistics. There's nothing wrong with exploring ideas on your own, but you won't get as far as if you look at what others have already done.
Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign
Post by: waive15 on February 27, 2021, 03:16:24 AM
It is difficult to use IPA on/from the keyboard.

---

So:
      i  -  i' [ə];
      u - u' [ʌ];
      s - s' [ʃ];
      z - z' [ʒ];
        ...

and   '    stress sign
and   :   long sign,
and   j   soft sign

---

about reinventing the wheel:

caveman_1 (the inventor): Behold ,B.C., the new wheel. It's the improvement of the square wheel.

caveman_2                     : The improvement?

caveman_1 (the inventor): Yes, it eliminates one bump.           

Mathematics, a Human Endeavor A Textbook for Those Who Think They Don’t Like the Subject (by Harold R. Jacobs), page 250 (of the book)

               https://disk.yandex.com/i/MD9EBwSbzqkVBQ

Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign
Post by: Daniel on February 27, 2021, 03:28:08 AM
Quote
Turkish schwa is i without the dot.
Actually, that's not accurate. Turkish <ı> (dotless i) is a high vowel but in the center of the mouth, so it is pronounced higher than schwa which is a central mid vowel. (There's no schwa in Turkish.) This is a good illustration of why using a standard like the IPA is useful.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with exploring these things for yourself, but it won't be clearer to others if you make up a new system rather than learning how others have been doing it for years.
Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign; ...
Post by: panini on February 27, 2021, 11:03:29 AM
I grant that it is challenging even for me as a phonologist to get IPA letters into texts, but let's ask, why are you doing this? Why would you want to provide an IPA re-writing of written English texts? IPA is about pronunciation: your quasi-transcription of English is wrong, unless this is a transcription of your personal pronunciation. Written standards provide people with one or two fixed targets to learn, whereas transcribed English is unlearnable, since there are billions of possible transcriptions (given the billions of speakers).

You don't really need a transcription except if you are trying to convey information about pronunciation. So perhaps you might want a transcription in case you want to know how to pronounce "hamamelidanthemum", which in fact has a correct pronunciation and an incorrect pronunciation, enshrined in the phonological literature (the key is to know that it's not an arbitrary multi-syllabic string, is a compound of "hamamelus" and "anthemum"). What you really need is a collection of actual recordings, and the better online dictionaries now provide that – including both US and UK versions. The problem with Wiktionary is simply that there is no real vetting of the misinformation that they promulgate, so you can't be sure that e.g. a given word was produced by an actual speaker. Don't bother with transcription, just provide a link to an authoritative RP pronunciation, if you want to provide an indication of pronunciation.

If you don't have a purpose, you can't decide if your decisions are good or bad, just as you can't decide if smashing a window is good or bad in the abstract.



Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign; ...
Post by: waive15 on February 27, 2021, 02:57:01 PM
Hi, panini,

"... unless this is a transcription of your personal pronunciation. ..."

Yes, this is a transcription of my personal pronunciation or the way I hear the words. Thank you!
                                                 



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_reform

https://disk.yandex.com/i/kFqv1fjXfTNLgQ


===




Married... with Children (1987–1997)
S8, E26, "Kelly Knows Something", 11:00 min.

Al Bundy  : Bud, now listen, you've helped Kelly with her schoolwork. Tell me, is she capable of, you know, anything?

Bud Bundy: Oh, sure. You just gotta work within her limitations. Look, Kelly's brain... Kelly's brain... (Bud moves his hands closer and closer)... can hold anything. You just gotta make sure of two things before you start. One, that it's totally empty.

Al Bundy  : Well, we know that.

/laughter/

Bud Bundy: And two, you gotta feed her information slowly. A drop at a time until she's full.

Al Bundy  : Full?

Bud Bundy: Oh, yeah. Kelly's brain can actually get full. Then you gotta be really careful... because each new fact after that will totally replace an old one. That's how come she forgot to put on a blouse the day she took driver's test.

Al Bundy  : No wonder why her license expires every 60 days.
...



So:

- everyone has one's limitations;

- each new fact after that will totally replace an old one.

And

after a certain number of memorized words one needs rules and/or/of phonetic spelling.




Have a nice day.
Title: Re: a, e, i, i', u, u', o; ... s - s', ... , z - z'; j - soft sign; ...
Post by: waive15 on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
      [a, æ] a - a' [ɒ]    (round a)

       [e, ɛ] e - e' [ə, ɜ] /unstressed - stressed/ (if that is too complicated then)
          [e] e - e' [ɛ]

               i  -  i' [ə]    /soft - hard/

               u - u' [ʌ]    /round - unround/
               o - o' [ɔ]    (broad o)

               s - s' [ʃ]     /"hard" - "soft"/
               z - z' [ʒ]    /"hard" - "soft"/
         [g] g - g' [dʒ]  /"hard" - "soft"/ (g' = dz')
         [k] c - c' [tʃ]    /"hard" - "soft"/ (c' = ts')
               
 
and   '   stress sign (before the vowel or syllable, if needed)   
and   :   long sign
and   j   soft sign

===

Most common words in English

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

"...
According to The Reading Teacher's Book of Lists, the first 25 words in the OEC make up about one-third of all printed material in English, and the first 100 words make up about half of all written English.
..."


So mastering (learning the spelling of)

- the first few hundred most common words;

- the words with clear logic/rules;

- the words (terms) used in one's profession

should be enough.

===

G'org';

c'e'rc';

c'api'l/c'apl;

e':rg'i'nt;

ime'rg'i'nsy rum;

e'rth;

u'nimporti'nt;

hi'ut'el;

'pri'unaun;

S'eikspii'r

...

===


I think the Russian letters are:

s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts', ts, dz
ш, ж,   -    ,   ч   ,  ц,  -


Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: Rock100 on March 03, 2021, 09:26:22 PM
>         [g] g - g' [dʒ]  /"hard" - "soft"/ (g' = dz')
>                  - c' [tʃ]                           (c' = ts')
You might probably want to have a look at my thread “On soft consonants in English” on this forum. I tried to get a free professional consultation on the issue but most likely due to the professional solidarity experts here provided me with so vague and diffuse comments that I have no doubt they want me to pay to a professional speech therapist. Though I do not speak English I am a kind of a real expert in soft consonants and I believe your understanding of the subject is probably wrong. Softness is the same (not a different) sound but pronounced a different way. From my point of view, the way is to raise your tongue while starting the consonant. You may refer yourself to the Webster’s pronunciation of “piss” and “piece”, for example. For a trained ear the Ps in these words are different because the P in the “piece” is started from the position for the long E sound. You might also want to analyze the saved wav files of Webster’s pronunciation of similar words (beam/bim, shit/sheet, bitch/beach, etc.) with your favorite digital signals processing software to double-check it. But probably the Webster’s has an accent though.
> I think the Russian letters are:
>
> s'
> ш
There is the exactly one exception in Russian, as I believe. But first, you incorrect here twice. The hard/soft S’es are as in the words sick/seek (if you are lucky you will hear the S’es difference in Webster’s again) and there are no SH at all. And as far as the Russian soft SH sound it is probably so important or different that Russians differentiate it completely and give it the special name and its own letter щ (compare ш/щ). So, from the point of view of a native Russian speaker (no exceptions) all native English speakers pronounce the “she” word as щи, not a ши. This is absolutely clear and it does not depend upon an accent (American, British, Australian, etc.).
> hi'ut'el;
I cannot get the real English word behind this but my perverted mind keeps reading it as huitel (and you definitely do not want to have an international trademark or something like this).
Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on March 04, 2021, 08:22:40 AM
Hi, Rock100,

Let's start with hi'ut'el.

The word is hotel.

I could have written hout'el but for me [əu] is easier than [ou]. So I say [əu].

ho- [o/əu] is a leveled syllable and -tel [tel] is the stressed one.

===

About

g, k/c, h  -  g' [dʒ], c' [tʃ], :
s, z          -  s' [ʃ], z' [ʒ]

and

Russian щ  -  [ʃ(t)ʃ]    =  [ʃ + almost missed t + ʃ] ~ [ʃtʃ]
                                 /ʃ +t + ʃ = ʃ + [tʃ] (ч)/
             
No magic in Russian. "t"(/"d") is often missed in English words/speech because is/are hard to pronounce (even in "my language").

don'(t), of(t)en, ...

Russian ш is [ʃ].


===


SOFT  - HARD

means

1. (relatively) front - back /for vowels/

      and

 g' /dz' [dʒ] - g   [g]
                                     /for consonants/
 c'/ts'   [tʃ]  - c/k [k]


2. (relatively) up - down /for consonants/   

 s' [ʃ] - s;

 z' [ʒ] - z;

===

Consciousness works not in absolute values but relative.

===


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets#/media/File:2017_Kazakh_Latin_Alphabet.png


===



Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on March 10, 2021, 01:42:20 AM
Hi,

 * For someone Silent e (Silent (soft) vowel/syllable) may resemble Zero;

 * Apostrophe ' (1. noun, omitted vowel/syllable)

      https://www.dictionary.com/browse/apostrophe?s=t

 * Let Reduced sounds in a word be in the Even syllables

    and

    letter e be [ə], letter i be [ɪ] (, and letter u be [ʊ]);

 * For vowel sounds in Odd syllables one may take different approaches;

 *  ...

===

 * - syllable;
 '  - Silent syllable

 * * * * * ... - Syllables in odd positions (of a word)
 1    3    5
 

* * * * * ... - Syllables in even positions (of a word)
   2    4




1 syllable word ( + a Silent syllable):

*  - a is not Reduced (a is the 1st)
a

' * - a is Reduced (a is the 2nd)
  a


2 syllable word ( + a Silent syllable):

* *  - a is not Reduced (the 1st), b is Reduced (the 2nd)
a b

' * * - a is Reduced (the 2nd syllable), b is not Reduced (the 3rd syllable)
  a b

* ' * - the 2nd is Reduced (not a (the 1st) and not b (the 3rd))
a   b


3 syllable word ( + a Silent syllable):

* * * - b is Reduced
a b c

' * * * - a and c are Reduced
  a b c

' * ' * * - a and b are Reduced
  a   b c

...


===


Examples:

the [ði:]; 'the [ðə]; a [eɪ]; 'a [ə]; 'an [ən]; ...

...

===

(    x [ks]  -  xe = x' [gz]    ; there are other times when x = silent k + [ʃ]; x = silent g + [z] (, ... ?) )

g [g]   -  ge = g' [dʒ]

c [k]   -  ce = c' [tʃ]

s        -  se = s' [ʃ]

z        -  ze = z' [ʒ]

' = Silent e (soft)

/now g', c', s', z' have sense as syllables and they are counted as such (or simply just ' is counted as a vowel/syllable)/


Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: Rock100 on March 10, 2021, 11:40:12 AM
> It has to be раз- for all words!!! (always)
> The logic of "рас-" is very bad.
It is very hard if not impossible to pronounce an unvoiced consonant after a voiced one. You can really make them to write раз+<unvoiced the rest> but they will still pronounce it as рас-<…>.
> Phonetic writing is good but not enough. One needs to go up.
The history tells the opposite – it appeared to be pretty good for the American English to try to become some more phonetic. By the way, is Guinness localized in the US? Is it the drought or draft stout there?
Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: Rock100 on March 11, 2021, 01:57:29 PM
> I meant that on the level of morphemes раз- has to be always раз -/роз
> (never рас-/рос-). On that level it is better if affixes remain un-/change/-able
I did understand you. I just think if you want to deprive Russian a prefix it would be better to leave them the more phonetic one. Russians often pronounce раз- as рас- even before voiced consonants. I have never thought about it (I am not a professional) but quick analysis makes me think it depends on the speed of speech, emphasis, and distinction. I also believe that pupils do write рас- instead of раз- erroneously but never vice versa. Though if there is only one prefix it will not be a problem indeed and let it be раз-.
> (root is another story) and there have to be strict rules.
And by the way the roots do not have the rules. They are all taught as exceptions (and there are not so many teachers who try to explain why and just say “memorize that”).
> So, voiceless (consonant) sound after  раз- will made/change z into s (no matter one
> wants it or not).
> There are mistakes in English and Russian languages. They have to be addressed.
I believe you shall not repeat the error of another reformer – Noah Webster – who’s reforms look nonsystematic and incomplete. So you probably need to do something to без-/бес-, воз-/вос, из-/ис-, вз-/вс-, низ-/нис-, чрез-(через-)/чрес-(черес-) pairs too.
Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on July 05, 2021, 02:23:52 AM

"...
Japanese Writing and Pronunciation

In writing, a Japanese employs Chinese characters and kana together. A Chinese character has its individual meaning as well as the sounds, and it is employed for nouns, verbs, adjectives and such "solid" words. A kana represents merely a syllable sound and it has no meaning of its own. It is employed for endings, post-positions and such parts of less import. There are forty-eight letters in kana while there are a limitless number of Chinese characters.
...

It is not impossible to write everything in kana, but (1.) that will betray the lack of education on the part of the writer. Indeed, the original meaning of the word kana is substitute letter, and the Chinese characters are considered real letters (hon-ji). (2.) Although the Chinese characters are difficult to learn, once they are learned and mastered, they make a most rapid reading possible, because they convey the meaning directly to the eyes without resorting to the "sound".
..."
p. 169, Japanese in Thirty Hours, Eiichi Kiyooka

http://linguistforum.com/linguistics-links/takineko's-japanese-lessons/msg44142/#msg44142



===



English phonetic writing (kana) does not replace common English writing (hon-ji).

One's kana begins where one's hon-ji ends.

Kana is easy to write, hon-ji is easy to read.

---

 

   ' = Silent e (soft), (' is not used for stress)

 /' makes hard consonant soft and short vowel long/


  g' = [dʒ]              a [a/:/, æ/:/, ɒ/:/]  -  a' [eɪ]

  c' = [tʃ]                e [e/:/, ɛ/:/]           -  e' [i:]

  s' = [ʃ]                 i  {i}                      -  i'  [aɪ]

  z' = [ʒ]                o  [o/:/, ɔ/:/, ɒ/:/]  -  o' [oʊ] = ıu [əʊ]
               
                             u  [u/:/, ʌ]             -  u'  [ju:] 

                             ı   [ə, ɜ]                 -   ı'  [ə:, ɜ:]


 -                  -                      -                        -


au/aw [aʊ]         ıu/ıw [əʊ]        oi/oy [ɔɪ]                 
                                                                   
eı [eə]               iı [iə]               oı [ɔə]         uı [ʊə]

...


===

Turkish keyboard
 

q w e r t y u ı o p ğ ü

a s d f g h j k l ş i

z x c v b n m ö ç .



  26      +     4      +        2         = 32 =    29     +     3       = 32
 Latin     /ı, ğ, ş, ç/       /ö, ü/                /Turkish/   /q, w, x/


Turkish alphabet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet


===


hon-ji                 kana

entrepreneur   -   antrıprını'r

George           -   G'org'  /George in Turkish - Corc/

ammunition    -    amu'nis'ın

believe           -    bile'v / bilijv
                          bıle'v / bılijv



copies (pl)      -   copy-es

to copy          -   copy-es; copy-ed; copy-ing/copying

ashes (pl)      -   ash-es

George's        -   G'org''s

Georges (pl)  -   G'org'-es

cars (pl)        -   car-s



/or one could be more careless:

cars (pl)      -   car-s

copies (pl)   -   copy-s

to copy        -  copy-s, copy-d, copy-ing/copying, copy-ıble, ...

cities (pl)     -   city-s

-ible/-able   -   -ıble



/and why not 

ashes (pl)     -   ash-s

Georges (pl)  -   G'org'-s



...




Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on July 21, 2021, 02:23:02 AM

/some mistakes/

ash                -    as'

ashes             -    as'-s

-ible / -able    -    -ıbl(e)


===

                     endings

noun             -s, -'s (, ... ?)

verb              -s, -d, -ing (, ... ?)





======


Odd - Even syllable (another try / kana')



' = Silent e (soft),  (' is not used for stress)

/makes hard consonants soft
/and as a syllable(/vowel) changes parity (odd / even) of the others



                                 odd                              even

  g' = [dʒ]              a [a/:/, æ/:/, ɒ/:/]    -    a [a/:/, æ/:/, ɒ/:/]

  c' = [tʃ]                e [e/:/, ɛ/:/]             -    e [ə/:/, ɜ/:/]

  s' = [ʃ]                 i  {i}                        -    i  [ɪ (/ i/:/ ?)]

  z' = [ʒ]                o  [o/:/, ɔ/:/, ɒ/:/]    -    o  [o/:/, ɔ/:/, ɒ/:/]

                             u  [u/:/, ʌ]               -    u  [ʊ]






                                 hon-ji                           kana'

                              entrepreneur                   antre'pre'ner
                              entrepreneurs                  antre'pre'ner-s
                              entrepreneur's                 antre'pre'ner-'s 


                              fire / faɪər /                     fai'er
                              https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fire

---


                     endings

noun             -s, -'s (, ... ?)

verb              -s, -d, -ing (, ... ?)


Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on August 23, 2021, 04:27:39 AM
English words' orthography

/words are numbered in order of importance and usage/




Signs in/of English

. , ; ? ! - ' ... 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ...



Words in/of English

#1-52       (monographs)
a, A, b, B, ...

---

#53-67(?) (digraphs)
ae, ..., ph, ...

---

#68-76(?) (trigraphs)
sch, ...

---

... (?)

---

#77-84(?)
be/am, is, are/was, were/being/been
   /isn't, aren't/wasn't, weren't
  /beings

#85-??
have/has/had/...
      /...

#??-???
do/does/did/...
   /...

#???-???
will/would
    /...

#???-???
shall/should
      /...

#???-???
can/could
    /...

#???-???
may/might
     /...

#???-???
must/ -
       /...

#???-???
ought/ -
        /...

#???-???
need/ -
      /...

#???-???
dare/ -
      /...

#???-???
 - / used
  /... (?)

---

#???-??? (Prepositions, ~20)
...

---

#???-??? (Pronouns)
...

---

#???-??? (Articles)
a, an, the

---

#???-??? (Nouns, ~20 /all forms/)
...

---

#???-??? (Adjectives, ~20 /all forms/)
...

---
#???-??? (Adverbs, ~20 /all forms/)
...

---

...

---

#???-???
do

   level down      level up      origin

        -do-           +do+        _ --> _

        ado              ...               
         ...

a-   
        -"-               -"-             -"-

---

#???-???
go

        -go-         +go+         _ --> _
       ago             go on   
                    /two-word
                     verb (word)/ 
         ...              ...   

a-
        -"-              -"-              -"-

---

...

---

#???-???
all

         -all-         +all+            _ --> _
           ...             ...             all --> al-

al-
          -"-             -"-                 -"-
---

...

---

#???-???
full

        -full-        +full+            _ --> _
          ...              ...            full --> -ful

-ful
          -"-             -"-                 -"-

---

...

---

#???-???
access

      -cess-         +cess+         _ --> _
         ...                             ced --> cess

ac-
          -"-             -"-           ad- --> ac- /d --> c before c/
---

#???-???
...




===

do, go, a-, all, al- ... above are given as an illustration

===

This list is made up of words defined as such in

http://linguistforum.com/outside-of-the-box/spelling-(and-morphology-(and-syntax-(and-punctuation)))/msg44144/#msg44144

Letter is Word, #-graph is Word, Morpheme is Word, Word is Word, #-phrase is Word, (...) Sentence is Word.

===

There are other lists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolch_word_list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:1000_basic_English_words

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Service_List

https://www.talkenglish.com/vocabulary/top-2000-vocabulary.aspx

https://www.scribd.com/document/179640086/5000-Most-Common-Words-pdf

https://gist.github.com/deekayen/4148741

https://www.worldclasslearning.com/english/4000-most-common-english-words.html

...

One can get the picture.

Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on August 25, 2021, 05:08:45 AM

algorithm:


 for the first 100 ~ 200 words one has to trust (spelling);

                https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trust

 for the rest one has to check

                https://www.dictionary.com/browse/check

                    ...

                   (4)  to investigate or verify as to correctness
             
                   (5)  to make an inquiry into, search through, etc.

                    ...


     https://www.etymonline.com/

     https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page

     https://www.affixes.org/index.html


 then (again) one might (~???) check some of the first 100 ~ 200 words




===



x, y, z, j, w

---

x            - "native" in Latin

y, z         - Greek   in Latin (y (Greek-i) and z were used only(?) in Greek words)

j, w         - new     in Latin alphabet

---

x, y, j, w - native   in English

---

z             - odd       in English /bizarre, muzzle, nuzzle, snooze, booze, .../



-ize

(?) the only affix with z in English is -ize (?)

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=-ize

word-forming element used to make verbs, Middle English -isen, from Old French -iser/-izer, from Late Latin -izare, from Greek -izein, a verb-forming element denoting the doing of the noun or adjective to which it is attached.

The variation of -ize and -ise began in Old French and Middle English, perhaps aided by a few words (such as surprise, see below) where the ending is French or Latin, not Greek. With the classical revival, English partially reverted to the correct Greek -z- spelling from late 16c. But the 1694 edition of the authoritative French Academy dictionary standardized the spellings as -s-, which influenced English.

In Britain, despite the opposition to it (at least formerly) of OED, Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Times of London, and Fowler, -ise remains dominant. Fowler thinks this is to avoid the difficulty of remembering the short list of common words not from Greek which must be spelled with an -s- (such as advertise, devise, surprise). American English has always favored -ize. The spelling variation involves about 200 English verbs.


https://www.affixes.org/alpha/i/-ize.html





For simplicity, as a foreigner, one would choose -ise.




Here is a text for example.

https://www.computerweekly.com/opinion/Does-artificial-intelligence-have-a-language-problem

anthropomorphise /4th paragraph, 4th word/

recognise /7th paragraph, 4th line/

categorised /7th paragraph, last line/ (etymonline com and dictionary com do not mention the word)

organisations /11th paragraph, 13th word; 16th paragraph, 2nd word/


also

    kinaesthetic /5th paragraph, 7th word from the end/

    https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=kinaesthetic

    kinesthetic

   /ae - e   one is free to choose/

==


Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on August 27, 2021, 03:24:31 AM

-ize

The other affixes with z given by

https://www.affixes.org/index.html

are:

az(o)- / azot(o)‑

benz(o)-
             /
              benzoin
              https://www.etymonline.com/word/benzoin

               benzene
               https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=benzene
              /

piezo-

rhizo-

schiz(o)-

zetta-

             /
              zetta-
              https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zetta-
             /

-zoic

zoo-

-zoon / ‑zoa, ‑zoan, ‑zoic

zygo-

zym(o)-


All are foreign in English. All are Greek, or come from Greek (zetta-), except benz(o)-.

The difference between them and -ize/-ise is that -ize/-ise is productive in English (= -ize is naturalised).
                                                                               
/nature --> natural --> naturalise --> naturalised/




===



An average (~ 50 000 words) Dictionary of English would probably have about 30 z-words.


zany; zap;

zeal; zealot;

zebra; zebu;

zed (UK name of the letter Z);
zee (US name of the letter Z);

Zen; zenith; zephyr; zero; zest;

zig-zag; zinc; zing; zinnia; Zion; zip; zip code (US postcode); zirconium; zither;

zodiac; zombie; zone; zonked;

zoo; zoology; zoophyte;

zoom;

zucchini;

Zulu


apart from Zimbabwe, Zanzibar, ...



===



-i- 
https://www.affixes.org/alpha/i/-i-.html

a connecting/linking vowel from Latin

In Latin this is a regular part of word formation. As a result, it occurs in many words borrowed into English either directly from Latin or through French, for example omnivorous, uniform, and pacific. On the model of these and others, it has come to be used in words created in English. These can be formed from words which are ultimately of Latin origin, such as calciferous (containing or producing calcium salts, from Latin calx, calc‑, lime), ultimately from Greek, such as amoebiform (like an amoeba, from Greek amoibē, change, alternation), or even from those not of classical origin, such as tickicide (a substance that kills ticks, see ‑cide). It occurs particularly before an ending of Latin origin such as ‑ana, ‑ferous, ‑fic, ‑form, ‑fy, ‑gerous, or ‑vorous (see ‑vore).



‑o‑
https://www.affixes.org/alpha/o/-o-.html

a connecting/linking vowel from Greek

This appears as the final vowel of many prefixes, such as chloro‑, Indo‑1, pneumo‑, schizo‑, and techno‑. It comes ultimately from its use as a linking vowel in classical Greek combinations, which were borrowed into Latin and thereafter arrived in English via French. It is often used in English as a connecting vowel irrespective of the source of the word elements it links. However, it is often left off if the following element begins with a vowel (as, for example, with phlebo‑, a vein, where the ‑o‑ is lost in forming phlebitis, inflammation of the walls of a vein). In English the vowel also often acts as a link between a stem and an ending, as in cottonocracy or speedometer. In this book it is the Greek source stem that is decisive in placing an ending in its alphabetical sequence, so that entries (to take two common examples) are listed as ‑cracy rather than ‑ocracy and ‑logy rather than ‑ology; however, ‑onym appears in that form because it derives from Greek onoma, name. Entries are cross-referenced where confusion might arise.


---

i - u

e - o



-ous
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ous#English

-ious  = -i- +‎ -ous
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ious#English

-uous = -u- + -ous (?)
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-uous#English

-eous = -e- + -ous (?)
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-eous#English





-???-
vowel                   connecting/linking vowel

i - u                         -i- / -u-
                  -->
e - o                        -e- / -o-

If there is a connecting/linking vowel, is it really necessary to use a connecting/linking "-" !?
-???-




===



Basic English

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English

---

Simplified English

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_English

---

Special English

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_English

---

...



===


Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: waive15 on September 02, 2021, 02:28:24 AM


"... Although the Chinese characters are difficult to learn, once they are learned and mastered, they make a most rapid reading possible, because they convey the meaning directly to the eyes without resorting to the "sound".
..."
p. 169, Japanese in Thirty Hours, Eiichi Kiyooka


---


Chinese characters                 = 2d pictures (in squares) + some rules (including numbering and embedding)

English words (some of them) = 1d pictures (in lines)      + some rules


---

/English/
Pictures "make a most rapid reading possible, because they convey the meaning directly to the eyes without resorting to the "sound"".
/and they can also bring on the "right" sound/dialect/

Reading on the other hand is more demanding (some Latin, some French, some Greek , some ...).
/English/


===


Chinese characters (as 2d pictures)

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Written_Chinese/Calligraphy


---

most english spelling reforms are bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEsqY4MH40s


/probably because reforms deprive people of pictures and force them not to pronounce words in their accustomed manner (dialect)/



Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: Rock100 on September 03, 2021, 02:27:56 AM
> "... Although the Chinese characters are difficult to learn, once they are learned
> and mastered, they make a most rapid reading possible, because they convey the
> meaning directly to the eyes without resorting to the "sound".
> ..."
> p. 169, Japanese in Thirty Hours, Eiichi Kiyooka
Hm… One can easily teach himself treating, say, English words as separate hieroglyphs so there will be no difference in the way of reading and comprehension at all. And I bet that all more or less advanced readers of a language do such a trick. And an alphabetical reading/writing looks even more fault-tolerant than a hieroglyphic one. You can check it yourself. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Title: Re: a', e', i', u', o'; s', z', g'/dz', c'/ts'; signs: '(stress), j (soft), : (long)
Post by: Forbes on September 10, 2021, 03:18:35 AM
> "... Although the Chinese characters are difficult to learn, once they are learned
> and mastered, they make a most rapid reading possible, because they convey the
> meaning directly to the eyes without resorting to the "sound".
> ..."
> p. 169, Japanese in Thirty Hours, Eiichi Kiyooka
Hm… One can easily teach himself treating, say, English words as separate hieroglyphs so there will be no difference in the way of reading and comprehension at all. And I bet that all more or less advanced readers of a language do such a trick. And an alphabetical reading/writing looks even more fault-tolerant than a hieroglyphic one. You can check it yourself. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

I agree. Both a hieroglyph and a written word are two things. They are both a sign for the sounds of the spoken word (which itself is a sign) and so a sign of a sign, but also a direct sign for what the spoken word is a sign for. Accordingly, whether you are reading Chinese or English, the brain is taking up meaning directly just as it does when you hear speech.