Author Topic: past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!  (Read 7619 times)

Offline pompeyd

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past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!
« on: January 18, 2014, 06:46:33 PM »
Hello!

I am currently in a class about the history of languages, which encompasses the concepts of linguistics. For my homework this week, we were given words to transcribe into their plural and past tense forms.

For example:

bash [ˈbæʃɪz ] [ˈbæʃd]
stink [stɪŋks ][ stɪŋkd]


We also have several other questions involving why we use [s ] and [t] for the plural and past tense. And also why we use[z] and [d] for the plural and past tense as well.

However, I am not finding a pattern between the words using [s ], [z], [t], and [d].


Could anyone potentially give me a clue as to what I should be looking for?

Thanks so much for reading this, and helping me out!

Diana Pompey
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:57:47 PM by djr33 »

Offline Daniel

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Re: past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 07:07:40 PM »
Hi Diana and welcome,

(Note: I fixed the [s ] notation in your post, because the forum tries to use that for strikethrough text if there's no space in it.)

First, note that -s can be used for either plural nouns (cats) or for third-person singular present-tense verbs (goes). That's just coincidental and the two usages are completely unrelated but oddly enough for phonology the effects are identical so it doesn't really matter which one you look at (or even both at the same time). Here I think you're mostly looking at the third-person singular present-tense verbs though. (If you want an abbreviation for that it's usually just "3SG".)

Quote
bash [ˈbæʃɪz ] [ˈbæʃd]
stink [stɪŋks ][ stɪŋkd]
Those look fine for the first part and most of the word. But take another look at the -d at the end of the last two. Don't be confused by spelling! Do you actually say [d] or do you say [t]?

Are you a native speaker of English? If you're not, then I suggest trying to find a recording of some of these words to check or asking a native speaker. Your observations will probably be fairly reliable, but your intuitions might not be, so questions like this can be challenging.
If you are a native speaker, that will help, but it can also confuse you: due to what is called "categorical perception" you won't actually hear these subtle differences because it's roughly "one sound" (a phoneme) in your head, or perhaps you think of it as a letter like "d". "It's just a D right?" Actually, no. But we hear it that way (which is useful for understanding the meaning.)

A really interesting activity (if you have the time) is to separate recordings into individual sounds. You'll be surprised how different they sound in isolation-- without the context you'll be more likely to pick up on some differences.

Alright, so that's enough background info, on to your main question--
Quote
However, I am not finding a pattern between the words using [s ], [z], [t], and [d].

Could anyone potentially give me a clue as to what I should be looking for?
Given that this is homework, I want to help you rather than give you the answer.
Look at the following nouns (remember, it's the same -s sound as above). What's going on with the plurals?
cat cats
dog dogs
Do those sound exactly the same?
Think about 'creative' spellings of the plurals. Which one of these is more natural?
catz / dogz?
It turns out that the "S" in those two is actually pronounced quite differently.
If you can just remember that pair then the whole thing should start to make sense.

I've already probably given away too much, but as a last hint: look up voicing in your textbook.
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Offline pompeyd

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Re: past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 10:03:31 PM »
Wow! thank you so much! Your explanation really helped! (Also, thanks for making that edit for me!)

I also have another question if you, or someone else could help me?

I am asked to make rules to describe how the nouns <wife,knife,life> and the verbs <sing,ride,choose> are different.

I believe one "rule" could possibly be that: the nouns <wife,knife,life>  all end with the voiceless consonant [f ], whereas the verbs <sing,ride,choose> end with voiced consonants [ŋ ] , [d ], and [z ] respectively.

Other than this observation, I'm lost.

Thanks again,

Diana Pompey


Offline Daniel

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Re: past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 10:27:12 PM »
I'm not sure what's expected for your class, but I'm guessing it has to do with the different ways in which those two sets are irregular:
wife/wives, knife/knives, life/lives
vs
sing/sang, ride/rode, choose/chose

Making a comparison of nouns and verbs like that is a little odd (which is part of why I'm not sure what's expected), but if you look at those groups you can probably make some observations.
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Offline jkpate

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Re: past tense and plural form of words using IPA. please help!
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 11:47:48 PM »
Is it only plural and past tense "-s" that you are supposed to consider? Or are you also supposed to consider possessive "-s"? That might give you something interesting to say about <wife,knife,life>, anyway.
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