Author Topic: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?  (Read 5389 times)

Offline mallu

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Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« on: April 23, 2014, 11:32:55 AM »
I have known him criticize his teachers.- is this sentence wrong? Hope someone will tell me.
and this too
John discussed scratching oneself??/himself
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 12:26:12 PM by mallu »

Offline Daniel

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 01:47:40 PM »
The first one is fine. It may be a little formal or archaic but it just means "aware that he did that in the past".

The second sentence has two different meanings depending on the word you use. "Himself" is specific (john) and "oneself" is general.
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Offline ibarrere

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 03:27:27 PM »
Quote from: djr33
The first one is fine. It may be a little formal or archaic but it just means "aware that he did that in the past".

Quote from: mallu
I have known him criticize his teachers.

Surely that's not grammatical for you, djr33? It needs a "to" in there for me:

I have known him to criticize his teachers
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 05:49:14 PM »
Oh...  That "to" is so required that I imagined it was there while reading! :)
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Offline mallu

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 11:12:24 PM »
Isnt that 'to' optional? See the following sentence from Radford's book.

'I have never known Tom criticize anyone'- Isn't the above sentence like this?

Offline jkpate

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 03:43:16 AM »
The sentence from Radford's book is also not grammatical -- you've found an editing error ;)
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Offline mallu

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 06:20:56 AM »
Cant believe that,Can a celebrated author ,that too a native speaker go wrong like this? May be a dialectical difference,he is a brit & u guys r from states?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:24:41 AM by mallu »

Offline Daniel

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 07:35:34 AM »
Definitely an error/typo. It happens.
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Offline ibarrere

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 10:53:20 AM »
May be a dialectical difference,he is a brit & u guys r from states?

Definitely not. It's glaringly ungrammatical to the point that it wouldn't work in any dialect that I can think of.
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Offline mallu

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 11:17:25 AM »
Did anyone look at Radfords book.It is in section 3.6 titled Null T in infinitive clauses,He gives the following Examples there
a) I have never known Tom criticise anyone
b) A reporter saw Senator Sleaze leave Benny's Bunny Bar
c) You mustn't let the pressure get to you
Three examples of what he call bare (to-less ) infinitive.
P.S. It is not unusual cross-linguistically to omit  or keep a grammatical word optional in a dialectical variety of a language.isnt it?


Offline Daniel

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 12:00:02 PM »
The other sentences are fine. It might be dialectal variation, but that is strictly ungrammatical in my American English. From context I agree that it looks intentional. Regardless that construction does exist with some verbs.
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Offline mallu

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 12:12:07 PM »
Is that verb or its perfect participle form which make the sentence ungrammatical?

Offline Daniel

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 02:09:36 PM »
All ungrammatical:
*I have never known Tom criticise anyone
*I know Tom criticise anyone.
*I will know Tom criticise anyone.
*I knew Tom criticise anyone.
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Offline ibarrere

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 03:57:19 PM »
For comparison:

I have never seen Tom criticize anyone
?I see Tom criticize anyone
?I will see Tom criticize anyone
?I saw Tom criticize anyone

The last three examples aren't really ungrammatical, I just can't imagine anyone ever saying them.
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Offline lx

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Re: Is there anything wrong with this sentence?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 04:31:32 PM »
Quote
I have never known Tom criticize anyone
Brit here, grammatical for me.